Women Preachers? Where’s that in the Bible?!
I have three daughters. When they get a little older and start drawing the attention of young men, I will give them this piece of timeless advice: Don’t just listen to what he says; watch what he does. A man may say anything, but his actions will always reveal his heart.
This is good to remember when we come to scriptures regarding women in the Bible. For instance, did Paul really believe that women must not teach and that women should remain silent in church?
Many people think he did, and this has given rise to three lies that are harming the church: Women must remain silent, women can’t teach, and women can’t lead.
What did Jesus think? And what about the other apostles? What were their views on women in ministry?
We can debate the meaning of specific scriptures, and we’ll get to 1 Corinthians 14 and 1 Timothy 2 in coming posts. Or we can look at what woman did in the Bible.
Were there women in the Bible who taught, spoke in church, and led men? There were plenty:
- Who were the first two people to recognize the undeserved favor of God revealed in Christ Jesus and get their words recorded in the Bible (which meant they taught the men who wrote it)? Mary and her cousin Elizabeth (Luke 1). Mary became the first preacher of new covenant grace when she declared, “All generations will call me blessed, for the Mighty One has done great things for me” (Luke 1:48-49).
- Who was the first to proclaim the good news of Christ’s resurrection? Mary Magdalene, and notice that she was sent by Jesus to instruct the men (John 20:17).
- Who was the first to evangelize a Gentile town? The woman at the well (John 4:28). Which means a woman understood the Great Commission before Peter or any of the apostles.
- Can women prophesy? Sure, just ask Miriam, Deborah, Huldah, Anna, and Philip’s four daughters.
- Who led the church at Ephesus? Priscilla, along with her husband Aquila. Paul called Priscilla a “fellow worker in Christ” (Rom 16:3). In other words, he considered her his equal, a colleague in Christ. Priscilla also explained the gospel to Apollos (Acts 18:26). So much for women not being able to teach men.
- Which female apostle did Paul endorse? Junia (Rom 16:7). Paul said she and Andronicus were “outstanding among the apostles.” (Note: Some Bible translators are so bothered by a female apostle that they have turned Junia into Junias and made her a man.)
- Which two women contended for the gospel at Paul’s side? Euodia and Syntyche (Php 4:2-3). These two ladies are famous for disagreeing; they ought to be famous for preaching alongside Paul.
- Which women led? Miriam, along with Moses and Aaron, was one of the three leaders of Israel during the Exodus from Egypt (Mic 6:4). Deborah, the prophetess, was a judge of Israel and basically in charge of the army (Judges 5-6). If women could lead under the misogynistic old covenant, they can surely lead under the new, and they did (see Junia, Priscilla, etc.).
If the women listed above had believed the nonsense taught about women in ministry today, none of them would’ve made it into the Bible.
What about Phoebe?
I commend to you our sister Phoebe, who is a servant of the church… for she herself has also been a helper of many, and of myself as well. (Romans 16:1-2)
Ah, good ol’ reliable Phoebe. She gives insecure men a comforting picture of women in leadership. “She’s a deacon, nothing more, and if that’s good enough for Phoebe it ought to be good enough for any woman.”
I confess that as a pastor I spoke about Phoebe the helper far more than I spoke of Junia the apostle or Priscilla the pastor. I was comfortable with Phoebe, but Junia worried me (was she really an apostle? was she a he?), and Priscilla-with-the-pants made me uneasy. (Why was her name always listed before her husband’s?)
Thank God I’ve been freed from my insecurities!
Look again at what Paul says of Phoebe. He calls her a helper, but that is a limp translation of his words. It gives us the impression that Phoebe waited on tables or kept the babies quiet while the men preached.
What Paul really said is that Phoebe is a “succourer of many.” The word is derived from prostatis which means a female guardian, protectress, or patroness. Phoebe was literally “a woman set over others.” She was not a waiter but a patron, a leader, a bona fide mother in the church.
(And if you think being a mother is somehow an inferior form of leadership, you haven’t read how Paul described himself in 1 Thessalonians 2:7.)
In the coming articles we will look at the difference between what Paul wrote and what people think Paul wrote about women in the church. But before we consider what Paul said, it is helpful look at what Paul did.
And what Paul did was encourage women to speak and prophesy and lead.
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Trying to be popular instead of biblical? For shame. Are you really going to try and tell me that there are no differences in the roles we have to play as men and women? You’re going against hundreds of years of sound teaching and the Bible itself. You’re going against Christ as the head (man) of His church (women). You can joke about it as you have but it doesn’t change truth. I was going to buy your book but no longer. Please unsubscribe me as well. Thanks
Matt, glad my wife is not yours, to be sure. Paul quoted right out of Sacred Scripture and you still can’t see it? The Head is a position of service, not rulership. Just as Christ, the Head, came to serve and not be served (Matt 20:28), the foundation of Grace. Thus, husbands are to love their wives as Christ loves the Church. Rulership doesn’t even come into view here.
Well put.
Christ loved the church by nurturing her, establishing her, authorizing her, empower her and sacrificing himself for her.
Husbands are to love their wife as Christ loved the church.
You need the help of traditional hierarchical church thinking to misunderstand what the role of a husband is to their wife.
Hallo sir, the bible says God poured his spirit upon all flesh, both men and woman, that your sons and daughter will begin to prophesy… and also in Genesis when God created the spirit man, he put it inside both the male and the female, and the Lord commanded them to have dominion… Jesus never made demarcation of who preaches the gospel and who does not… He instructed his disciples immediately before he ascended to go and make disciple of all nations, who are disciples, and those disciples make other disciples
Amen.
Oh how thankful I am that Christ does not look upon me, or any other woman, with the same eyes as you. How thankful I am to be called worthy by the voice of truth who bestows upon me dreams, influence, and greatness that no man can take! How thankful I am to be a daughter of the most high!
Is it scripture or is mans nature that determines our actions?
Church goers and their leaders supported slavery from the scripture for thousands of years. . .there has to be a message in that somewhere.
For me, it is obvious that men in general will only surrender any control they possess through force, legislation or humiliation. . .and then. . . after they grant freedom to those who demand it, they actually claim it was their idea all along.
This has been women’s story over the last 4000 years. Surprisingly, in the last 2000 years since Christ the progress has been painfully slow even amongst those who see themselves as Christians. Ask yourself, and try to answer, why it took 1900 years to allow a women to vote. This surely must be a hint into the controlling nature of men.
And again.
It took longer than 1900 years for slavery to be made illegal, and longer still for freedom to be extended to slaves. Do you see a pattern
Men default towards retaining control.
We offer equality to others like someone who offers peanuts to monkeys. They offer the minimum to get what they want, and to keep the peace, and they always are the holders of the peanuts.
I hope you will stay around and see if some of your assumptions are supported, or not.
If we eliminate assumptions we remove ourself from being judgemental.
1900 years for the vote, that is why it is a sin for a woman to preach they will lie. Man didn’t vote for 1850 years in most western countries. In my state woman got to vote 4 years after the common man got to vote.
Fred, From my own experience, men cannot differentiate between the demand of their own will and the leading of the Spirit of God, it’s our own nature that bias the conclusions we choose to draw from the Word of God, causing us to be deaf to the Spirit of God.
Men make gods in their own image . . . after their own nature, so naturally these gods are vindictive, wrathful, angry, demanding servitude and sacrifice. These gods repay the good with good things, and bad people with curses. Servants of the “gods of men” create hierarchy within its priestly ruling class, and foster hierarchy within the commoners so that they may also rule over someone. The bottom rung of this beastly pecking order has for thousands of years been women and no amount of self-congratulation will alter this.
It’s the nature of man to exert control over others.
Jesus came to demonstrate the true nature of God . . . to set the record straight.
Those who served gods created after their own nature rejected Jesus along with the crazy notion that all were equal before God.
Well said, Richard. If we look at nature, we’ll see that everyone’s role is equally important and intertwined in such a way that we should let go of this dualistic way of thinking about men and women.
Sola Scriptura , Scripture Alone The reasons 1 Tim 2:11-12 is for today. 1) Parallel scripture 1 Cor 14:34-35. 2) 1 Tim 2:13 (For is a cause word) God ties His order back to creation Gen 2, God, man, woman. Nothing changes in the NT but God, Jesus, man, woman. 3)1 Tim 2:14 The fall Gen 3 Satan, woman, man. 4) 1 Tim 2:15 Nature and biology tell you men and woman are not the same. Men can’t have a baby so it’s ungodly for a woman to take a man’s role. 5) Deut 8:3 but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of The Lord. 6) Matt 4:4 but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God. 7) Luke 4:4 but by every word of God. 8) Special instruction for woman teaching. Titus 2:3-5. 9) Woman submitting, to husbands. Eph 5:22 and 24, and 33. 1 Pet 3:1, Col 3:18, Tit 2:5, 10) 2 Tim 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness. There is not one scripture that says you can flush it down the toilet. Thou shalt not bear false witness against the word of God.
Sola scripture is great but you have to take in all the scripture. Not just the ones, that when isolated from the larger picture, appear to support your stance. I come from a very conservative background on this issue.(sola scripture as well as very defined gender roles)
A few years ago I began to delve into a comparison study of what both sides say. I was shocked at how much scripture is minimized, ignored or quietly talked around from the side that emphatically says “Sola scripture!”. No I do not agree with everything the egalitarian side says but I was saddened that the “Sola scripture” side I grew up with is more “partial-scripture” when it comes to Eve and women in the new testament.
John,
If the scripture is all we needed for relationship with the Father then the word perfect Pharisees would have led the way, instead they rebuked Jesus when he addressed God as Father. All their legalistic literary literalism left them worshipping a god after their own nature. It’s worth noting that literalism is a favourite tool of Satan. Both Jesus and Paul recontextualized the old scriptures, leaving things out, or quote verses out of their original violent context.
I offer to you that the bible is a true account of mans’ trajectory towards knowing true nature of God and his righteousness. . . and that after Jesus arrived all scripture needed to be filtered through the lens of the reality of Jesus. Jesus had a big problem with scripture as it was written by men, he recounted that men of the past said to kill their enemies, but Jesus said “love them”. This is no small edit, I’m sure you will agree, and who were these inspired ones who wrote down the complete opposite to what God was speaking. . . basically everyone.
Two disciples wanted to call down fire from heaven onto some slack heathen Samaritans and Jesus said, “You don’t know what spirit you are operating from”.
If you don’t believe a man can be both clearly inspired and also operate from “another spirit”, take a look at Peter. Just as he is basking in Jesus’ praise, ”these Words you just spoke came direct from the Father”, a dozen verses later the same Peter gets told “get behind me Satan”.
And so it is throughout the whole O.T. After Jesus comes we have no excuse for making God in our own egocentric, domineering, nasty, violent, retributive image.
Jesus changed everything. In previous comments I offer the gnostic context to interpret 1 Tim 2 11-15
Richard Elson,
Does the fact that slavers used abstract and shaky interpretations of the Bible void the entire book and religion? Or only the parts that you don’t like? For example, if I don’t like the whole “don’t cheat on your wife” commandment, do I get to ignore it by saying “well you know slave holders used the Bible to justify slavery!” Do you see my point?
Your Spiel on voting was boring. There are a million reasons that women didn’t get to vote for the first 2400 years of democracy (if you look back at the Greek’s Demokratia as well). One of them being that democracy was intended as a means of tallying who would win a war (why kill each other when we can predict the winner by seeing who has more men?). I frankly still don’t believe that women should be able to vote since they vote typically as a monolith until they get married. Once they’re married they overwhelmingly vote the way their husband votes. They also have a different perspective on how problems should be solved that is better suited for internal conflict rather than the external conflict that a national election typically aims to put someone in charge of (i.e. the title commander in chief).
And you proved my argument by yourself. If the abstract illusion of “equality” has to be given by men (even if it’s Bc the government’s doing: the 19th amendment was pushed through by men, after all) doesn’t that give you an idea of how power is constructed naturally by God.
This being said, the different roles of man and woman are not hierarchal. Being able to vote does not make someone more valuable than someone else. 15 years are not less valuable because they cannot vote. Mixing up worth with suffrage was a huge mistake. Some people are better suited to make decisions than others, that is why companies have boards who vote on things and they don’t just poll the entire company. Collectively, the people on the ground floor of a company are just as vital to company success as the collective board of trustees/investors/executives/etc.
Hi Anton, Sorry to have missed your this for so long.
There’s no shortage of scriptures that can be used to support anger, hatred, slavery, bigotry, nationalism, without recruiting abstract or ambiguous interpretations.
Scripture, read literally support all manner of objectionable and disgusting notions. I am not suggesting to filter scripture by what you like or don’t like, I’m saying, “Jesus changed everything”. Jesus said, “love your enemies, don’t seek revenge or make demands for justice, don’t judge least you be judged by the same measure”. Jesus seemed to void a few scriptures that got up his nose with these edits.
Literalism is a tool of Satan, and literal reading and application of the scriptures often the act of those who are not led by the spirit, or by the Words and life of Jesus.
I hope my point is clearer on that front.
I’m not concerned about the speed of progress in this area, the trajectory is obvious and inevitable, this and other belligerent elements of the curse will be presented to Jesus as a footstool soon enough.
You might be right about being boring, It’s old news. . . it’s been tried before. . .if it’s difficult it mustn’t be right. . .and we already know everything about women and their preferences, they like what I like, and if they don’t they’re probably wrong. Praise the Lord. Next time I hear one them fussing and whinging about getting a “fair go” I’ll might “tell them to eat cake”.
Hallelujah Hallelujah I thank God and his son Jesus Matt 3:16 for his revelation cause some men like power and control, therefore only read and understand with the flesh so that they feel superior to woman but I have the Spirit of God down on the inside and I can do all things with Christ who strengthens me and that includes teaching preaching healing and whatever else he will have me to do. Glory to God
We are all one in Christ, there’s no difference, same spirit, same LORD.
Galatians 3:28 KJV
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
Colossians 3:11 KJV
Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.
If Paul was actually against women teaching, prophesying or taking up roles in the church, he wouldn’t have talked about this:
1 Corinthians 11:5 KJV
But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven.
Richard, in us, we know what is right or wrong. You talk about slavery, never God’s will in the first place but happened because of the fall and now we have as they call it, modern-day slavery. My Facebook page is dedicated to signing petitions of black men’s slavery and white men’s oppression from the elites lol. There is also a slavery in the church due to the upholding of man-made religion, tradition, and legalism. It is a lack of understanding of the scriptures that is the problem. We tolerate same cancer that we have in the world, “White man’s privilege.” Most white people walk in that privilege, white Christians too. We have made male dominate privilege; in the church too. If a woman is unlearned, she will bow to it. If she is wise, she won’t. There must be order in the church yes, but not to the point of subjecting yourself to the oppressive nature of Christian men. Christ is always there to lead and guide us – to lead us into all truths. But a woman of God that will boldly state, enough is enough, surely this is not of God and search and pray diligently to find the truth, is a woman worth listening too; unfortunately, many females Believers need to woman up and know that Christ died for her and not just a mere man, who is on an ego. She must believe that she is no longer under law but under grace. I lost a few female Christian friends as I never heeded to the religious oppressive dogma that was spewing out of the pulpit and so we could no longer walk, as we no longer agreed. Their fear was simply losing popularity from potential husbands who held power in the church. I still love them but I refused to be used as a puppet on a string. It’s about choices really, are we going to hold in high esteem, the praises of men above God, or visa versa? And while I believe it is lovely to honor men, it must not be to the point of stupidity; God never created women in Christ to be stupid or simple wishy-washy foolish dummies; for peak sake.
Hi FIFI, your struggle as a women is so common, as is your love and concern for the oppressed but what do we do next? There is a careful line we must walk between operating in our own strength and walking in the Spirit. It is obvious that God operates through our Faith, he only operates where there is Faith, we speak and operate in Faith and God gives the increase.
I have tried to bring increase through anxiety and enthusiasm, and I really believe these are physical barriers in the spiritual reality where victory begins.
Sometimes we need to know our place is to sow the seed and stand back.
Sounds so passive, I know. The real work is to remain in Faith knowing the victory is already won. We are here to play our part in the enforcement of the terms of Jesus victory.
I like to say that Faith is the knowledge of relationship, and our works of Faith are our response to that relationship.
We grow in Faith as we understand the relationship. e.g there is a relationship between Jesus blood and our sin; Jesus suffering strips on his back and our health. These are just the beginning of a long line of relationships that are now true because of Jesus.
In short, the “law of the spirit of life” has set us free from the “law of sin and death”. . .we are only set free from the “curse of sin” to the extent we rely on Jesus righteousness for that freedom.
The most violent acts of war against evil that you can personally do is to forgive those who oppose you. I confess I haven’t there arrived yet but I have left.
You comment is amazing to me: I put it this way, ‘God likes to be trusted.’ This realization came to me after so much trying to ‘get it right.’ or perhaps more accurately, struggling with my son nature that refused to get it right.
What you described to me is what Hod has been teaching me: walking with him. I want to learn so much more. I’m so blessed by him to be in a church with plurality of leadership. It’s a struggle though….I like many aspects, but getting something done with this structure is challenging. Do you have any insights?
Sara
Hi Sara, Don’t despise small beginnings. just begin.
Did you know that if one person spoke to and discipled just one person every 6 months, and taught the other to do the same, in 12 months you would have 4 people teaching and discipling others.
Do the maths, in theory you could disciple the whole world inside 15 years. (it’s true, get a piece of paper and crunch the numbers), imagine if we discipled two every 6 months.
Of coarse it does work as well if all you make are dependants instead of disciples.
Motive is everything.
Poor deluded Matt!
Your very reaction “unsubscribe me” on the basis of one article shows how closed your mind is . Why don’t you ask the Holy Spirit to reveal to you the biblical truth about women in ministry? You could also read Alan Hewitt’s very excellent book The Gender Revolution. He came from a stance like yours originally, studied the relevant scriptures and wrote his book
Matt, you are responding both hastily and foolishly. I doubt Paul is concerned over you not buying his book and unsubscribing from the site. He is probably more concerned for where your heart is at in how you reacted. You should try studying the whole Bible in context instead of seeking to make it fit what you’d like to believe. Paul isn’t going against the Bible or sound teaching, and he never said that men and women don’t have different roles. You do not understand headship or leadership, and perhaps not relationship.
Matt, Paul Ellis isn’t trying to be popular. Look back at your words. You cite experience and tradition and then mention Scripture. Perhaps the teaching over the past hundreds of years was in error. Isn’t that a possibility? I am confident that this has pierced your heart and curiosity and you will most certainly keep checking back on this blog to see how Paul addresses these passages.
if i remember correctly, works based salvation was based on the bible and was considered sound teaching for hundreds of years as well…
if our minds have been renewed to understand the truth of the gospel of grace, then perhaps we should be prudent to examine ourselves and be open to the possibility that there might be other teachings that have been misinterpreted as well.
When I began sifting this issue for myself discovered something about the word head. I trust the Strong’s dictionary but not everyone does.(there is my disclaimer). Head in the pasage you are talking about does not mean boss or in charge of. It is the same word used in chief cornerstone describiing Jesus. Going by common useage the cornerstone of a buiding is the foundational piece that supports and by it’s stability shapes the structure which is built upon it. Yes Christ is the head of the church and the husband is head of the wife but not in a boss-follower dynamic.
Hi Matt, hope all is well. No 1. You can unsubscribe yourself. No 2. you are right, in a sense. For eg, Only women can breastfeed her baby and not the man. That’s domestic, but a spiritual job belongs to the body of Christ, period. God may send a man to do or preach to a certain group who would not permit a woman to speak to them, there are cultures like that. Women may be better at ministering to children in some cases but in other cases, he may want a man. God is the one that leads a group or individual to do his will. We must not limit God, my friend. We work with each other and we should honor one another and don’t look at women as inferior or men. Remember, you and your wife are both joint heirs together.
FIFI I don’t understand “White man’s privilege.” I worked 60 hours a week in a sweatshop to put myself through college. Not a penny from the government or parents. I pay all my taxes, no foodstamps, no childcare, no Obamaphone, and somehow I am privileged? Oh, did see a band-aid that was white! But I don’t think this is the proper place to tear down the evil white man.
ἐπιτρέπω (epitrepō) Verb – Present Indicative Active – 1st Person Singular. Strong’s Greek 2010: To turn to, commit, entrust; I allow, yield, permit. From epi and the base of trope; to turn over, i.e. Allow. Look it up here, The translators back in the 1500 new only men and kings rules, King James would have no allowed it so the version we got was I DO NOT PERMIT, when it should have read I PERMIT, look below at the link and some study
Priscilla was not a pastor. Nor any other woman in the Bible. Giving the gospel is not pastoring a church. What a bunch of non sense
Take it up with Paul. He was the one who called Priscilla a pastor to the apostles.
We all are called to serve and be christ like and imitate christ and also Paul. To help. With all the bible says. It would mean that a real man will be served and helped to serve God and return much love grace mercy and forgiveness and much more. As the head of all.
Did you really reference the church as women? The Bible says Jesus is coming back for the church, would that mean men will be left out? The Bible also says stop thinking like a child. Be like a child where evil is concerned but be an adult where thinking is concerned. Every thing in the article was biblical.
Something else along the same lines is the ‘Proverbs 31 Woman’. She is often held up as the model wife/woman, a nearly impossible ideal for women to live up to, and sadly men preaching her have enslaved women to the ideal. But if you really look at the Proverbs 31 Woman, she is actually just as qualified as men in so many ways, and just as ‘allowed’ to do those things she does, like being a successful business woman et al. And she makes her husband proud – because she is living up to everything that she can possibly be. I think the Proverbs 31 Woman is actually a model of enabling women to come into their full potential – and that includes using their gifting in every area they have such gifting. And if that is speaking in public, leading, preaching, teaching, then so be it.
Good point.
Take a closer look at the proverbs and you will find the guy that wrote the proverbs was taught them by who? Hmmm That might be his mother. Proverbs 31:1 – The sayings of King Lemuel–an oracle his mother taught him:
Actually Proverbs 1 starts by encouraging us to listen to our mothers teaching
Listen, my son, to your father’s instruction
and do not forsake your mother’s teaching.
Whoops wash my mouth out – women cant teach – except here in proverbs, and in Timothy whose faith came from mother and grandmother and Miriam teaching through song and …. wow the list of women teaching is actually pretty big!!
Its a good thing I don’t actually listen to what the Bible says otherwise I might heretically think women can teach.
Obviously, in addition, the Proverbs 31 Woman is the Church, the Body of Christ. No woman or man could ever live up to that as a single entity.
Oh, absolutely. Hence the huge burden – indeed, impossible burden! – that it is when people expect all women to ‘conform’ to the Proverbs 31 pattern. 🙂
There are some great lady teachers who comment on this site as well.
And we are all better for it.
It is not so hard I don’t think. In truth Christ is in me (male), Christ is in them (female). Christ in me is neither inferior or superior to Christ in them.
I might think that you Paul are superior to me. And I suppose in many ways you are. But in the end it’s just Christ in me and Christ in you and we are all one in Christ Jesus.
Thank you, thank you, thank you is all I can say. As a woman serving God for 40+ years, you can imagine the things I’ve heard preached and taught. I know the scripture says many things about womens’ place on the church but I have also known many powerful women who are pastors, overseers, prophets, etc and sometimes it has been a point of contention with many people. There are whole denominations who will not allow women to take any position in the church that is above nursery duty, Sunday school teacher or women’s ministry. I am not trying to down anyone but it’s refreshing to hear the Biblical point of view that you have shared. Thanks!
Our heirachal Church leadership structures are totally unbiblical anyway. So I wouldn’t worry about it!😁
Do you see no difference between men and women in the New Testament in regards to roles and functions Paul? just interested.
I did notice that all the apostles are men. But it doesn’t make a law for me.
Yep. Most Christians don’t let the Bible get in the way of what they believe.
Most Christians don’t let the Spirit of God get in the way of how they prefer to read their bible.
We much prefer being led by our cultural bias, bigotry, and of coarse our traditions.
Although … mary magdalen waS called the apostle to the apostles and a woman junius is named amongst the earlier apostles.
Men as early apostles is likely caused by difficulties a woman in that culture would have travelling and acting alone.
Mary sat at jesus feet listening to his teachings and he defended her doing that. Only disciples were to do that. Disciples are more important than apostles. Apostle is one of the 5 fold ministrys… a position. A disciple is what Jesus calls us to be and to make.
Junia was a female apostle, and an outstanding one at that (Rom 16:7). She even was even locked up in prison with Paul.
Thank you Paul for addressing this issue. This women can’t preach/teach attitude in some circles of believers needs to have some serious Light exposure and be healed.
Sad that in some churches there are women who have God given gifts to share the Gospel, but must sit silently under oppressive traditions. Women are not even considered an option to bring the message in places where their church is unable to find a male preacher, so the church closes.
We are all one in Christ Jesus.
Amen and AMEN! Thank you!
Thank you paul for clearing confusion in the body of Christ. We are all one in Christ no male nor female (Gal 3:28) The same spirit in men is also in women. Before the fall Adam and Eve were both called Adam.(Gen 5:2). Man dominated the woman after the fall but Christ brought restoration. If any man is in Christ he is a new creature. A new creature is neither a female nor a male but the marriage of deity and humanity.
Very interesting. I never knew that. Something new to me. I read some verses in Genesis 4 and 5 and found you were right.
That’s so good.
Women where subject to men, not because it was part of Gods plan, but because it was an implication of the law/curse of sin and death.
Christ set us free from the “law of sin and death” and ALL its implications, we now look to the “law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus” and take up our positions in enforcing the terms of the new law.
Thank you for posting this message. I don’t care to be a preacher, but I believe God speak to all people if they earnestly seek Him. It’s a shame some refuses to hear.
In the end it will be political in relation to what roles women can fullfil in church. Reformists (Calvinists) claim they cant lead or preach. Scripture says otherwise. Male and female followers of CHrist are all part of the priesthood of believers. Scripture must be viewed through the Lens of Christ. If you do that their can only be 1 conclusion…women can lead. teach and preach.
I believe God chooses whom He wants to lead. Paul said women should keep silent in church. I believe some should indeed do so, but I’ve also heard some men should as well.
Bonnie the greek more talks about providing a peaceful place to learn within church not silence. Reember the culture was not use to equality for women in church and also some very wealthy women who owned slaves were use to giving orders to people. SO chruch was becoming a place of disagreement
Well done Paul . . . New Covenant Theology is what we need to hear . . . and under the New there’s neither man nor woman . . . Blessings !!!
Thank you. Just…thank you for speaking on this topic. Thank you for simply being honest and unashamed to point out the names that have been listed but always somehow swept under the rug or squished into the “acceptable” categories and roles that women can hold. I greatly appreciate your admiration and respect for the place you hold for women in ministry.
Thanks for confident boldness to proclaim the truth. Dad Hagin (Bro Kenneth E.Hagin for the uninformed brethren), wrote an excellent book on this subject. The Woman question. He was not a Radical Grace preacher, but he did understand the righteousness of the believer, our union with Christ, and New Creation realities.
Want to really ruffle religious feathers, preach or teach unconditional eternal security, speaking in tongues as a gift available to any who desires it, and women in ministry. You will surely start a big war lol.
I don’t get the controversy. In Christ there is neither male or female, we are one in Him. He gives gifts to believers. There are women prophets in the Old, so surely if they can hold a ministry office in a Covenant not as good as the New, surely we can have women ministers and preachers/teachers in the New.
If your really want to start a riot ask where the modern day pastor is to be found in scripture? Nowhere! That’ll rock the religious boat. Don’t do it though unless you’re prepared to have ministry doors shut in your face, left, right and centre 😉!
Hmmm how about Ephesians 4?! This strange idea that the Pastor isn’t a New Covenant office seems really out there. The office of Pastor was introduced in the New Covenant not in the Old. Be real Bro you sound like the many Church is bad and who needs it crowd.
Thank you Paul, that comes at a time when people are arguing vociferously about this issue. It’s good to have some basis on which to discuss the issue!
We can all learn from each other to be sure. And the gifts of the Spirit are available to be used by all.
Regarding biblical leadership (non hierarchical), why did Jesus choose twelve men to lead the early church? Was he politically correct? Or was he aware of something regarding his creation and our complimentary differences?
Using the verse neither male or female doesn’t quite wash if you seriously think about what the passage is actually referring to, our salvation.
I am convinced many women will have larger crowns than us men in eternity! My wife for one, putting up with me all these years, God bless her!!!
It could have simply been that had he chosen a woman no one would have listened to him as it was a serious breach of culture for then.
Let’s be honest the biblical pattern of leadership is male. There are exceptions. Can God use a woman to lead? Sure, when he cannot find a man to do it! 😁
Every believer male and female can preach and move in the gifts of the Spirit.
There are many patterns in scripture that we should not emulate. Just because a lifestyle ro cultural pattern exists does not mean it is a have-to or a should. I could point to cultish real life examples of pattern following gone wrong. Patterns vary based on what we expect to see as well. Not saying that you are wrong. It is just that patterns in themselves are not spotless proof of the truthfulness of an idea.
From an historical / cultural view there are a few things to remember: Women generally were not allowed out of the house and to roam free in the market places. They needed chaperones / protectors with them. Men and women did not and still do not walk together in many eastern cultures.. Despite this Jesus had women followers – a miracle right there. They provided for the disciples out of their goods and means. Jesus parables were often told twice – once from a mans point of view and once from a womans. Houses built on a hill (by men) Lamps lit in windows (by women). He broke the sabbath for a man in the pool of siloam and later for a woman in the temple. Look at most of the places Jesus preached in the temple – the womens courts. Thats the only way a woman caught in adultery could be bought before him. The lists goes on. Jesus discipled women . The story of Mary at his feet ( where only disciples sit) is a cultural bomb. of meaning.
Thank You Paul, I realise that many people who quote , “wives submission to the husbands” by using Ephesians 5:22, fail to somehow recognise Ephesians 5:21, which ask both to submit to each other. There is great mystery that is still misunderstood about man and woman. They were created one (Genesis 1:27, 5:2 and Mark 10:6). Woman wasn’t out of man yet, when the dominion blessings was pronounced, so both were asked to dominate the earth. Man was not blessed with dominating woman. The only idea of man “dominating woman ” was a result of the fall. Now how we we claim the benefits of Christ redemption work from the curse of the fall but seek to hold women to the curse of the fall? like i said there seem to be a great mystery about our nature as :” male and female he created them” ….God’s idea of marriage making them one, seem to explain such great mystery (Mark 10:8 Gen 2: 24)
Thank you Paul for sharing those great truths. It never fails to amaze me how people seem to loose all sense of reasoning when it comes to equality in the church. In the creation story we have the creation of Adam and within Adam was woman in the form of his rib.Woman was already within man when he was created, therefore she was equal with him. She was then later formed into a body by God . Simple really !!! Roy
Well said.
Why would anyone one wish their spouse/women to live under the law whilst they enjoyed freedom? It was never God’s intention and all the scriptures above prove it. But there’s more! The most popular passage (1Corinthians 14:34-36) used to oppress women is actually Paul’s RESPONSE to a letter the church had written to him and it is called a responser.ie It was usual from rabbis to get such letters and they’d respond by quoting what was said, then answering it. You can see this pattern in those letters when he quotes 1Corinthians 14:34-35. The response is ‘what?’ Even though some try to omit. When you read the entire passage-reading the questions(when Paul quotes them) and his answers…all becomes clear.
It is God who saves both men and women (Gal 3:28), and it Him who gives them gifts as He wills for the edification of all (1 Cor. 12:4-9). The greatest qualification for ministry is not gender but divine calling, giftedness, and empowerment.
I totally agree with this altogether
I get upset when women get pushed to the back. So many women do a great job preaching, teaching,Prophesying Laying hands on the sick I believe God gave us all the purpose on this earth to do all these things through Jesus Christ our Savior . We are all vessels to be used in anyway that God sees fit.
1Tim 2. is used to justify male eldership only. …”Let a woman learn in silence with all submission. And I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, but to be in silence. ..However the Greek construct suggests otherwise. eg Traditionalists translate Hesuchios/Hesuchia as “silence” (at least in passages concerning women), but the word in all other places is translated as “peacefulness” “Peaceable” or “quietness.” The word does not carry the meaning of literal silence or absence of speech, but of an atmosphere or presence in which learning should take place. Second part… nor to have authority over [authentein] a man.. Paul uses the word authentein and it is the ONLY time this word appears in the New Testament. Other uses of authentein then show it does not simply mean legitimate or routine authority, but carries violent, sexual, and dominating meanings. However as the centuries past its meaning was changed eg The Vulgate, from the second to fourth century, translates this verse as “I permit not a woman to teach, neither to domineer over a man. It is not until the 1500s that the verb authentein used in this verse changes from the drastically negatively-charged “to dominate/domineer” to a slightly water-downed phrase, “to usurp authority” (King James). Finally it is not until after World War II that authentein really gets the last alteration “to exercise/assume authority over men. You can draw your own conclusions from this. My view they can teach/preach.
Before Adam fell from dominion he was in relationship with God spiritually alive. After he fell from dominion he lost fellowship with God. So when Jesus came on the earth he came where Adam fell from that why he could work miracles etc. So for us to get back where Adam fell from is through Jesus spiritually alive. In christ male and female are on the same level as partners.
Therefore she also a have a right to be alive spiritually to worship God, and be use By God.
Thanks, Grahame Smith. That was very interesting. A smart Believer in Christ will know that for man’s interest to survive, they will miss-interpret certain scripture to remain in their view, on top. It is a form of intimidation, that stems from insecurity. If a man truly knows who he is in Christ, that would not happen in the first place. I lost count how many women I know have left church cuz of it. The thing is, if someone is confused about a particular passage, the Holy Spirit is there to help. That’s why no man can preach or teach something false and demeaning to me and I will accept it. Women are sooooooo free; in Christ, sadly thou, many don’t believe it and yes, while I pity oppressive arrogant bible bashing men, I also pray that they would know just how much Christ love them; because if they did, this suppression would not be an issue.
If God meant for the women not to teach or preach than only the men in the upper room would have spoken in tongues while the women would have remained silent !
I remember some years back visiting an American air base in England and got speaking to a pastor on the base who ministered to the men and women. He told me the story of how during the 2 world war many American soldiers visited the base. One local lady from the district went to the base weekly and ministered the gospel to the soldiers, she led many to the Lord over the years and taught them the word of God, some she met again and many she didn’t. The pastor I was with told me it was because of this ladies ministry during the war on the base was the reason the base still had a ministry, she was the foundation and the work continues to this day. Praise God.
I shared this story with one of my christian friends in work, I thought it was a great story.
But I couldn’t believe my friends response. He said ” well that lady was wrong in what she did because the bible tells us women should not teach men” He couldn’t see past what he had been taught instead of rejoicing in souls saved.
Laurence.
A classic demonstration of how the letter of the (misread) law kills. Wisdom is known by her fruit. That lady was a life-saver.
One thing I have learned in studying early church history is that their gatherings were set up comepletely different than our for hundereds of years. There were no preselected leader that led the gathering. It was informal where many different people contributed based on the Spirit’s leading and the needs of the people for the day. So trying to apply early church rules for order and peace to our modern methods creates problems. I’m still studying and learning.
Yes Coleen, as I am sure you will discover there is no biblical support for the single pastor. Leadership was always plural in the New Testament. Ephesians 4:11 does not envisage a pastoral office as so many Christians seem to imagine. Apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors and teachers were all functional roles, they were never offices, positions or titles. It is therefore a great error to confuse the modern day pastor with the pastor in Ephesians 4. The contemporary pastoral office is unimaginable to the first century Christian.
That’s all good in theory, First century church didn’t know how to run a big business.
Everyone will agree that a well-run church should adopt efficiencies from good business, Jesus said as much when he overturned the money changers tables (Jesus didn’t like the business model).
If you’re going to operate a Jesus franchise it’s important that Pastor and CEO are functionally synonymous, “being good stewards over what we are given”. It’s self-evident that a strong hierarchy needs to be set up, whether male or female, CEO/Pastor/senior executive oversight appointed. Apostle Paul said we need to adapt to the times and circumstances, ”going as a Jew to the Jews and as a Greek to the Greek”. Badges displaying position makes for clearer distribution of responsibility and importance so that everyone can know who the anointed ones are, “let the righteous of the Lord say so”.
A strong sense of hierarchy is needed to keep the church organised, disciplined and controlled, “our Lord is not slack, nor the author of confusion”. Strong leadership is able to tell people what to believe and, ”and keep the sheep safe”. Top down leadership models efficiently enforce the vision of the Pastor, “that, we should all be in one accord and not cause division”.
The plurality model has no clear leader, so who would be the head?
Richard your post strikes me as being somewhat odd.
No church is a business!
I thought Richard’s post was quite accurate. Someone has to oversee or shepherd everything in a church and that includes finances, real estate, salaries, etc. Yes, it should be done by someone who is led by the Spirit, but it doesn’t diminish the responsibility and importance of the position. A church does not run itself. It seems like a lot of people here have been burned by churches in the past. Not all churches are like that. Not all churches are out to exploit you for money, control, etc.
Paul is correct in his description of the role of women in the bible. God does not discriminate against male or female nor does He limit the roles they can carry out in the ecclesia. The issue really is the historical distortions that have come into the institutional church system over the past 1700 yrs. The first church established by Christ and the apostles was very different to what we have today. It is us who have departed from their simple model of the temple being made of flesh and blood not a building… but rather people who love Christ.
Hi richard. I hope your talk about church being run like a buisness was a joke against some of the modern models. If not the church is never was intended to be a buisness or run like one.
Who would be the head? Jesus. But you are really asking how we humans could do things if no single person was in charge. The things is church shouldn’t have one single person in charge. We need spiritually mature, proven individuals to be the primary teachers and overseers of select things like the budget or outreach programs. But in the end the local gathering should be a group effect as it was in the beginning. All coming together for study, praise, prayer and encouargement. The first churches were much closer to our casual bible study groups than anything we consider “church” these days. A single pastor as leader did not emerge until around 300AD.
Hi Collen & Deb, yes I was being a bit cheeky, and yes, I do agree with Bob that there are many important tasks that require our full attention and diligence. I get a bit twitchy when all that responsibility falls on one man, it’s not just a bad idea, it’s almost guaranteed to bring out the worst in a man.
The alpha male will surf the waves of ego. . . gaining control, maintaining control and increasing control as a little king. Even the meekest of men can fall if the fellowship require all things from him.
When all men and women are submitted to one another they can cover off one another’s weakness and allow God given strengthens to rise as they are led by the Spirit of God under the headship of Jesus.
Plus Prophesy means more than prophetic flowing in the Greek it means both prophetic flowing AND preaching …
Richard is correct about what the early church looked like. We don’t need 1 leader in a group running a business and expecting to be submitted to and obeyed. The Romans brought that notion into the church (hierarchy) and the institution kept it till today. Interestingly if you do a search of the Greek meaning of the gathering of saints, you will find its more in line with the construct of”gathered unto Christ” ie past present future believers joined together with Christ always. So the gathering goes with you every day which is the bride. Gathering together on Sunday is just one example of this.
It’s not just women who have been oppressed by our religious institutions, what about all the men? Men have been emasculated by professional Christianity and our religious institutions! Taking their place in the pews week after week at an unbiblical Sunday service, having to listen to an unbiblical sermon from usually the same man week after week! What about all those gifts lying dormant in all those believers, men as well as women? It’s a disgrace!! The Sacred Cow of the Sunday service and sermon needs to die!! We need a revival of the Priesthood of all believers, men as well as women. The Sunday service, the church building, the one man running the show (however well intentioned) and the sermon are all stumbling blocks to true body life and the participation of all believers using their gifts for mutual edification! We need meetings not services! Make no mistake about it, men have been just as oppressed by religion! True biblical preaching was never meant to be a monologue by a well polished speaker (yes sermons really are unbiblical)! Our church practices have done great harm to the functioning of the Priesthood of all believers, both men and women.
Lol, I think you have an excellent point there!!! I disagree if you mean there is something wrong with meeting in Sunday, I think any day is good for meeting, but I agreed with the rest!
I actually clearly heard the gospel in a church that has a preaching team, not a single preacher, not a single pastor and we have a sharing time where the body can share what God has been teaching them. ❤️ It’s not perfect, but I like that aspect.
In the end you after ask where would Jesus be.Under 4 walls and a roof or out in the community ministering to people heralding the kingdom..on earth as it is in heaven.
Nothing wrong with meeting on Sunday. Open participatory meetings is what it is about. The Church building doesn’t lend its self to this very well. Plurality of elders where possible and resisting a big chief (however gifted) is also key! It is great having the Lords Supper as a meal together too, as originally was. Helps give time to build proper relationships and fellowship. It’s not about perfect church, where there are people, there are problems 😉! I include myself in that!!
You are so right. We all have suffered from not following the Spirit. We have all chosen to lazily let someone else do the work. Arise oh sleepers.
Paul, what do you think of the passages in the epistles regarding deacons and overseers that seem to assume that they are all men?
I will deal with these in a later post. Thanks.
I did a study on the word silent that was used in Timothy and Corinthians. The commentary on this said that the word was misinterpreted and it actually means that the women should be able to worship in silence and not have to contend with all the fighting that was going on in that church. It says that I want men to pray with holy hands lifted up to God, free from anger and controversy. It had nothing to do with women not speaking or teaching.
So what DID Paul mean when he said that? It seems so clear cut. By the way I hope you’re correct! Thanks.
I’ll deal with Paul’s words in the next two posts. The first one will come out next week. Subscribe and you won’t miss it. (Signing up is free and always will be.)
Hmmmmm, Marjorie, where did that study come from, very interesting.
1 Timothy 2:11-15 seems to give controlling men permission to disqualify the “it was just cultural” card offered to explain other scriptures concerning women.
13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. seem to trumps the cultural card because it goes back to the beginning.
It turns out that Paul is answering questions that we are not privy to, these questions are obvious when the history of Ephesus the birth place of Artemaus 500B.C and proto-gnostic thinking around Timothy and Pauls’ time.
Let’s construct a Gnostic ‘statement of faith’:
1) That which is physical is evil; spirit is good.
2) Salvation is by your pure spirit escaping from your vile body. The means of such escape is ‘special knowledge’.
3) The Old Testament God had created the evil physical world. Hence God himself is evil and a deceiver.
4) The body is evil and to be treated harshly. But sexual immorality is fine because it breaks the law of the evil creator; marriage however is forbidden.
5) Creating more vile flesh by having children is evil. Women who give birth will be hindered from entering Gnostic heaven.
6) Eve is worshipped as a perfect, spirit being, Adam’s creator and, united with the Serpent, the enlightener of mankind with the True Knowledge.
7) Knowledge of your origins is important to salvation; Eve is the origin of all.
8) Christ only appeared to have a body.
Good to see some positive commentations on the women of the bible. The bible does tell us that, son and daughters will prophesy. I always had a hard time reconciling this with women should remain silent. Thanks for clarifying.
It is not that hard to reconcile. The Greek word is the same for both wife and woman. Husbands and wives sat separate from each other in the assemblies and women were more often than not uneducated. Wives were calling out questions to each other to their husbands and causing disruptions. Therefore in chapter 14 Paul was addressing this issue, not the traditional women are not permitted to teach or preach.
Let us all , believers in Christ Jesus , the Body of Christ, the Church, preach Christ crucified 🙌🏽
We are all one in Christ Jesus, there is neither Jew or Greek, male or female, Rich or poor, bond or free , we are one in Christ Jesus ….. let’s just do what HE called us to do…… 🙌🏽
You know Donna, Paul encouraged women to prophesy and pray so why did he say what he said when he admonished women to cover their heads before praying or prophesying? If that is not speaking, I don’t know what is. He who prophesies edifies the church” (Corinthians 14:3-4). So it is not in the confines of someone’s home; although many early churches started from there; so their home became open to public whenever the church congregated together. I also believe that there were problems with women understanding certain scriptures and they would holla out to gain understanding. Women during that period, certainly lacked even the basic of education; I do not believe all thou. Articulating their words was probably frustrating and so there needed to be more order in the church. We know thou that the Holy Spirit is our teacher so I am sure that before they passed, they understood a lot more. You know, it’s the way Paul said it, that became so controversial lol. I would be as bold as to state that the OT Hebrew, the NT, Greek and both are more expressive in their language, whoever converted in English, wrote the word but lacked giving the kind of expression that would make it a little easier to get. You know, we have to think of the group he was addressing, why he addressed them and the real meaning behind it; that is where the precious Holy Spirit comes in.
I am confused why so many are referring to the ‘there is neither Greek nor Jew, slave nor free, make or female….’ as a basis for supporting female leadership. Do you not realize that to apply it to female pastors is to apply it to those who support homosexual pastors as well? Are we now joining the non gender proponents and are going to start having uni-sex bathrooms in church? After all…”We’re all the same”! Why are so many people threatened to hear that there are differences in men and women, and in the roles that God has equipped each with?
The passage is referring to both men and women as being POSITIONALLY equal in God’s eyes. No second class citizens, no slaves, not inferior, not less in any way. When a child falls and scrapes their knee who do they naturally run to for consolation? We all know that’s momma so do we need to instruct the little tyke that in Christ “mommy and daddy are equal!” so in the future as to not discriminate or hurt the feelings of his father he needs to go to daddy just as often? Good grief. If you want to support and endorse female leadership then fine, that’s not my main point of saying something here. Just be sure to do it from a standpoint that Scripture supports and not take one verse and making it say something that it doesn’t.
The gifts of the Holy Spirit are not gender based !
God didn’t give men a blue Holy Ghost and women a pink Holy Ghost !
Yes and those gifts include ministry gifts: Apostles, Prophets, Evangelists, Pastors and Teachers
(A response to Richard)
A good question, Jesus perhaps?
“God didn’t give men a blue Holy Ghost and women a pink Holy Ghost !” HAHAHAHAHA. YOU ARE FUNNY
The term preaching simply means to proclaim the bible text in its context to the hearers. Preach the gospel to all nations. God gave that authority to both male and female………….. For God does not regard male or female the way many male preachers and men in general do. For there is neither male, female, Greek gentile but……in a nutshell, he must be called of God and impregnated with the Holy Spirit and his or her calling is to witness to the masses as he or she is set apart to preach the good news of the bible…….He or she shares is the one offering the message of liberty that we have in Christ and he or she has limitations, it must be the word, rightly preached; to the church and to the word….
More specifically, we believe that Scripture permits women to pray or prophesy within biblical guidelines and with a proper attitude of submission (1 Cor. 11:3-4; Acts 21:9), to witness to women or men in public, to pray with believers or non-believers in a non-leadership role, and to teach children and other women (Titus 2:3-4; 1 Tim. 5:16). Women can prophesy and teach and preach. I know Titus 2:3-4 and Tim 5 talks about women praying, helping children and other women. Out on the streets thou, women can preach and teach also because we are supposed to proclaim the good news to who God leads us. Consider also Acts 2:17
This was so well put and precise. Thank you for clearing up a common confusion within the church and reminding us that we’re ALL – men and women – children of God.
I am so honored to read this article on women called by God. I been called many years ago and served in this role hearing from God and God gave me a sherperd heart for the sheep. I heard him call me Pastor Ann and confirmed it in so many ways. He had to make a believer out of my husband who is now deceased. I remarried and everyday I am persecuted because I won’t now to the devils theory. Pray for me please.
God bless you Sister in the Lord. After being raised in a Baptist background, I understand how men can dominate in the church. I was not allowed to lift my hands to the Lord or to say Amen, teach or preach in the church. Praise God he brought me out of there move me to a different state, I was taught by the very best, and was ordained as a woman preacher who preached for 7 years under a mighty man of God. Over a period of time my husband got mentally ill and I was unable to minister. Now that I am single and moved to the north where tradition is very strong. I am unable to be used here as a minister or preacher of the Gospel. I am being used in a small Church to sing in a group or be used as a soloist. I am so unfulfilled in this church and have searched for new ones in my area. No one here in the New England area accepts me as a preacher or minister. I’ve been to Bible College, I preached and taught in a church 7 years in Texas. Now, living in the New England area, I am not accepted here ask a minister or preacher. I don’t understand the church here. The men run everything in the church here, and look to the women to cook, watch out for the children, do the books, and are able to get involved in a woman’s Bible study. On Sunday I sit and listen to a one-man preaching message. This minister is a one-man show, he praises and honors all the men in the church. He talks about the man that helped him get where he is. Men honoring men. Women are very seldom honored for what they’re doing. I myself don’t know what to do concerning this matter. I feel empty inside, just like you would take a man preacher send them down and tell him he can’t preach for many years. My spirit is crying out. I want God to use me to teach and preach what he has given me to help others. I will pray for you, pray for me. God bless you.
This is the most ridiculous article I have ever read……not one example u quoted in scripture has anything to do with a woman preaching the word…matter of fact, the examples you gave had nothing to do at all in regards to a woman preacher. You honestly believe a woman that’s told to deliver a message is interpreted as a preacher? Are u serious? Dude, just say u don’t agree with what the bible says in regards to women preachers rather than twisting the words around to fit what u wished it said. It’s very obvious you don’t agree with the bible due to the fact that the examples u gave has nothing to do with a woman being called to preach. Stop your false propaganda.
Yes, dude, I’m serious.
Fiona skyers??? Would love to know where your reference is in terms of where u come up with the definition of “preacher”….maybe your own? I love how people want to just exempt what the bible say because they believe a woman is the same as a man and should be treated the same…its so stupid…in today’s society, woman want to be men and men are acting like women. Man was created first…of course Im sure u disagree with that because it puts a woman behind man….oh, and what about a woman being created due to the fact man was lonely ??? I guess that was just a misprint because theres no way that could be possable….and how dare the bible say that woman took the first bite of the forbidden fruit..and that part about Sampson really didn’t happen because a woman would never do such a thing… so many proclaimed Christians are such hypocrites….woman is NOT the same as a man so get over it. Love how some on here state there OPINION like its a fact. Might be easier if you people on here just write your own bible instead of trying to rewrite the kjv.
Scott, we are all one in Christ. There is no more male, female…no more distinction regarding race or status.
In a way you could say Eve was ‘in Adam’ when Adam was created…as God removed a rib from Adam to create Eve.
Who was behind Delilah, who paid her to find Samson’s secret? It was the Philistine leaders who offered her a whole lot of silver… I imagine they were male leaders.
Yes, women and men are different…but they are equal. A man is not worth more than a woman. What a shame if a woman was not allowed to use her God given gift.
If you were drowning I am sure you wouldn’t mind if it was a male or female who came to rescue you.
Paul this post is so refreshing….thank you. I have been encouraged reading many of the replies made by women on this site, they are a blessing. Thank you for the opportunity to speak.
Thank you for sharing
Noted, scripture given, woman preaching is no fact. Not in the Bible anyway! Title woman were given, is queen and, that was done in a King’s world, not in the church. Women, best cons and seduce, lying under the nose of even a King. * Holy Spirit lead me to…ESTHER. * Esther, a beautiful Jewish virgin living in the palace of the King, was there under a lie. King, no idea she was a Jew, related to the people he had planned on putting to death. So beautiful and satisfying to his eyes…he made her queen. Even as queen, she stayed in the woman house part of the palace. So, even in the business of Kings…no lead. Able to get him to KILL, she was that loved by him, but woman still not in the leader position. Cooking, laundry, cleaning and, children teachers, as Christians. Which, church was anywhere they gathered. However, none preached in churches. Rap or murder, with no mercy given them, had they travelled to save souls. Today, thank goodness, we have evolved!!! Lord sent the Holy Spirit into the world. Amen.
I will pray for you and those you have led astray. Who are you, a mere man, to correct Our Lord God? It is clearly stated in Corinthians and Timothy by DOZENS of separate translations that women are not to have authority over men and specifically within the Church. Does Our God say women should not teach? NO! It states women are not to teach or have ANY AUTHORITY OVER MEN. IT IS NOT UP FOR INTERPRETATION. When God holds you accountable for leading other astray are you prepared to tell him that YOU know His Word better than HE DOES??
Why do you think I am correcting the Lord? Which part of the article do you disagree with?
You have made private interpretation. That scripture is referring to the husband/wife relationship. There is no differentiation between woman and wife in Greek, nor is there any between man and husband in Greek. In other words a wife should not take authority over her husband. Your interpretation does not reconcile with what we see in the rest of the scriptures concerning women.
I don’t think women should be Pastors over a congregation. Because that puts her over a man.
Salute Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen, and my fellowprisoners, who are of note among the apostles, who also were in Christ before me. Romans 16:7. I have no problem with Junia being a woman. However, if she is a literal Apostle (like John, James, etc.) based on this passage, so are all of Paul’s kinsmen and his fellow prisoners. She could simply be an apostle–one sent forth on a mission (from God). That does not make her a preacher.
Neither Paul nor any other apostle forbade women preaching, or lecturing. I affirm such a command is nowhere in the Bible, and I shall proceed to prove it; and, besides, I will prove that Paul taught the very opposite.
“An Admirer of Woman in her proper place” has quoted 1 Corinthians 14:34, 35. Now, surely the fourteenth chapter does not contradict the eleventh, which was necessarily written before it. In 1 Corinthians 11:4, 5, St. Paul says, “Every man praying or prophesying having his head covered dishonoreth his head; but every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoreth her head.” Why did not “An Admirer” read this chapter before he read the other?
Instead of St. Paul’s forbidding woman to conduct public worship—for that is what praying and prophesying mean—he actually condescends, as “An Admirer” would perhaps think, to settle and arrange how a woman is to dress when she prophesieth or preacheth. It will be seen from the verses I have quoted above, that whatever every man was to do in the church in praying and prophesying, woman was to do the same; and, instead of Paul forbidding the woman, he merely tells herself and the man how they are to dress—one with the head uncovered, the other with it covered. “An Admirer” has made some reference to Eve, but he is evidently totally ignorant of the nature of the temptation to which Eve was exposed, of the manner in which it was put, and of the share which Adam had in the matter.
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