Taking Communion in an Unworthy Manner
I remember as a 10 year old boy watching in terror as the communion plate came closer and closer. Why was I afraid? Because there was unresolved sin in my life – I had argued with my sister before church!
I knew that those who took communion in an unworthy manner risked condemnation, even death, for the Bible told me so:
For whenever you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until he comes. Therefore, whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of sinning against the body and blood of the Lord. (1 Corinthians 11:26-27)
Thankfully, I was wrong.
This passage above must be one of the most abused and misunderstood passages in the entire Bible. It is regularly used to deny communion to those who need and it is frightening to 10 year olds.
In truth, it is one of the most liberating scriptures in the Bible, yet many believers are condemned by it.
Doesn’t this seem odd to you?
After all, this passage was written by the same apostle who said, “there is now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus.”
So what’s going on? Did Paul have a change of heart? Is he now saying that God will condemn us if we partake of communion in an unworthy manner?
For if we would judge (diakrino) ourselves, we should not be judged (krino). But when we are judged (krino), we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned (katakrino) with the world. (1 Corinthians 11:31-32, KJV)
Click on the Greek words italicized above and you will see that diakrino and krino mean to distinguish and decide, while katakrino means to give judgment against or condemn. In other words, the only time Paul refers to bad judgment (the condemning, punishing kind) in this passage, is when he is referring to those who condemn themselves through unbelief and not the Corinthian Christians. (I have written elsewhere on how “we are judged by the Lord.”)
Contrary to what you’ve heard, this is not about Christians examining themselves to see whether they’re worthy of communion. And the Bible never says we damn ourselves by taking it in an unworthy manner.
So what sort of judgments or decisions should we make when taking communion? And what does it mean to proclaim the Lord’s death?
To answer these questions we need to look at the two deeds that are represented by the bread and the cup.
At the Last Supper Jesus handed out the bread, said it was his body, and told the disciples to eat it in remembrance of him (Luke 22:19). He didn’t say much else because no doubt they could all recall the fuss that happened the last time he said he was the bread of life:
I am the bread of life… I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever. This bread is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world… I tell you the truth, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. (John 6:48,51-54)
As a result of these words many disciples turned away from following Jesus (John 6:66). To them, the idea of eating his flesh and drinking his blood was repelling. They did not grasp that Jesus was referring to his impending sacrifice – that he would give up his body in fulfillment of Isaiah 53:4-5 so that we might have life.
What does it mean to eat the flesh of Jesus? It means to behold Jesus and all that he has done for you at the whipping post and on the cross.
In communion the bread represents his body which was broken so that you might have life and health. This is good news for the sick, but it will have no effect in your life unless you believe it.
In the passage above, Paul is exhorting us to judge whether sickness or health is from God.
Sadly, many believers are confused about these things. They think that God wants them sick so they can learn stuff. They don’t recognize (diakrino) that Jesus gave his body so that we might be healed.
By failing to honor his body and blood they take communion in a less than worthy manner. It’s like saying, “Jesus was wounded for nothing,” or “by his wounds I have not been healed.”
Sickness and death are part of the curse of sin (Gen 2:17). Jesus died to set us free from sin and all its effects, but we won’t be free unless we put our faith in his work. The Corinthians were suffering unnecessarily because they were not recognizing or discerning the Lord’s body. “This is why many among you are weak and sick and some have even died.”
It wasn’t that God was judging them for getting drunk at communion. They were suffering the effects of sin because they did not properly value what Christ had done on their behalf at Calvary.
Because they were not judging themselves in light of the finished work of the cross (forgiven, accepted, blessed, healed), they were still experiencing the punishing effects of sin (rejection, sickness, condemnation). Because they weren’t attributing to Christ the full worth of his sacrifice, they were still suffering – in the language of King James – the effects of damnation.
At the Last Supper Jesus took the cup and announced a new covenant based on his blood:
This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins. (Matthew 26:28)
In fear of eating and drinking in an unworthy manner, many Christians treat communion as a time of somber reflection. But proclaiming the Lord’s death should be an occasion of joy and celebration! Was there ever a better reason to party than this?
Think about it: We who were once defiled by sin have been washed white as snow (Is 1:18). Our guilty consciences have been cleansed and our forgiveness has been eternally secured by the precious blood of Jesus (Heb 10:22, 1 Pet 1:19).
This is the good news in a cup!
I provide a line-by-line paraphrase of 1 Corinthians 11:26-32 elsewhere, but Paul’s message to the Corinthians can be summed up like this: Judge yourself in light of Christ’s perfect sacrifice. Because of his body and blood, you are forgiven and healed.
Learn to discriminate what is from God (e.g., healing) and what is part of sin’s curse (e.g., sickness). Understand that anything that is not God’s will in heaven (there is no sickness in heaven) is not his will here on earth. When you learn to distinguish what is from God and what is not you are chastened or disciplined (paideauo, literally, trained up or instructed) of the Lord and escape the adverse effects of sin that the rest of the world suffers.
How to partake of communion worthily
Are you battling sickness, condemnation and guilt? Then prepare a communion table in the presence of your enemies and proclaim the Lord’s death! Don’t look at communion as an empty ritual; make it an active declaration of your faith in Jesus.
As you take the bread, behold the Lord’s body that was broken so yours could be whole.
As you take the cup, discern the Lord’s blood that was shed for all your sins (Heb 10:12). Remind your enemies that they were thoroughly defeated at the cross. Because Jesus has triumphed we can reign in this life (Rms 5:17).
There is no grief or sorrow he did not carry; there is no curse he did not redeem you from (Is 54:4).
Judge yourself as God judges you – perfectly righteous, eternally forgiven, and completely whole!
More articles about communion.
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Paul Ellis seems to be saying, “Whoopee!, look what God did for me so I can be free, joyful, have all kinds of stuff and do what I want!”. This attitude is extremely cavalier and shows a lack of depth in his understanding concerning the COST of salvation – what Christ was willing to do for us! Yes, by HIS stripes we are healed, but If the cost was so great, imagine the DEPTH, the severity of the crime, namely sin – OUR sin! Yes, be greatly thankful, be joyful, but a deeper joy tempered with godly sorrow which comes from a humble and contrite heart. Our Lord’s passion, starting with His sweating blood in the garden to His last words on the Cross, His mother standing there with a pierced heart, aught never to leave our collective consciousness lest we forget, our hearts become hardened and we fall into a “name-it-and-claim-it” kind of sham which, no doubt, greatly pleases the enemy.
No what pleases the enemy is not receiving everything that Jesus,s death provided. You should be careful it may be that you are the one who is pleasing the enemy.Jesus is not dead he is not going to the cross again , unless of course you take God there, he is alive.
Though I, personally, am not in “name it, Claim it camp” I would never attribute a belief of Paul Ellis’ to be a “sham”. As far as shams go, must of those are usually in fear-based churches.
““Whoopee!, look what God did for me so I can be free, joyful, have all kinds of stuff and do what I want!”. Ummm, unlike yourself, I’m not comfortable putting words in Paul’s mouth, but he might agree with you. More to the point: what is it, exactly, that you want to do but can’t because it’s against the law? So I think you are saying that you want to sin but can’t. I sure know I sin; but I sure don’t want to. My goal is to someday do exactly what I want to > never choose sin and always be an ambassador of God’s. I humbly and contritely submit to you that, all too often I do that which I Do Not want to do > follow my flesh. Try reading the end of Romans 7; and maybe that will help you understand.
Of course we are not missing the point that you are attacking the beliefs of many others on this blog. I wonder is this how you handle others in your church who might disagree with you? Attack, mis-state? Attempt to intimidate them to get them to agree? Call then sham artists until they submit to your teachings which Askren
A tad erroneous to me (if I get you correctly) Or, hopefully, would you humbly listen, then share your beliefs and scriptural interpretations; asking the Hoy Spirit to open their hearts; and not your intimidations (uh ohhhh .. What if the Holy Spirit is telling them that you are wrong. Now There’s a quandary!!)
“This attitude is extremely cavalier and shows a lack of depth in his understanding concerning the COST of salvation”. Read his books and his post > do your homework > unfounded. You may disagree but this claim is unfounded. (Maybe you were thinking about those things you were wanting to do 🙂 ).
I, personally have no problems with your having a disagreement and kindly sharing with love.
“deeper joy tempered with godly sorrow which comes from a humble and contrite heart.” You do seem very proud of you humbleness”. So you would classified you condesending post with it’s false accusations as a man with a “deeper joy tempered with godly sorrow which comes from a humble and contrite heart”?
You want an example of humble? The owner if this blog let you freely discredit and falsely mistake his message and his ministry. That Mr. Stevens is humble. If I were totally on the fence and read your post, then read Pauls posts. I would want to hear the message of the humble man for he is trying to teach me, not trying to force me into his camp.
Maybe you should rewrite your points, only try a little humbe pie before you do. (I’m still trying to wrap my mind around how proud you are of your humbleness, I fear maybe I misread your post because it kinda parallels Luke 18:11).
I really like and appreciate the “Don’t look at communion as merely a churchy-ritual; make it a bold declaration of faith!” that Paul makes.
Warren (South Carolina)
Thank you so much for your article on the Holy Communion,it has further enforced my perspective . I totally agree with your view which is bible based. God bless you.
Hi Paul this is really a true confirmation of what the Lord is doing to build his church. sometimes, one is tempted to think this is so much of freedom. But the gospel, well understood will always be “too good to be true”. This is so liberating, please keep on and remain a blessing.
Communion is for those in good grace with God, who have repentant and who are not living in sin (period). When receiving the body and blood of Christ, you are making yourself available to either receive a blessing or curse. The state of your soul depends upon which one you receive. The Church denying communion to those whose soul is in a state of sin is actually protecting them from a harsher judgement. The judgment is not from the pastor, the congregants, the Bishop or Pope, it is from God. He will punish you for being too proud to stand down when you know your life is not formed to His will. If I have thought something harsh against someone, I will not think of approaching the alter in this state.
You do realize that 90% or so of what you said is pure tradition and is not supported by scripture?
Under the Old Law, the High Priest tied a rope around his ankle before entering the Holy of Holies, so that if God struck him dead, the Levites could drag out his body to give him a proper burial. He had to be pure and follow the instructions to the letter, lest he die upon approaching God. For the same reason, we must examine ourselves before receiving Communion, and never take Communion with an unclean conscience or a lukewarm heart, lest the gift of God instead destroy us.
Yet in 2000 years no one has ever been destroyed by God for taking communion.
I know “myth” here will say it has been switched to a spiritual destruction because that is how tradition covers its error about people no getting struck dead for doing communion improperly. This tradition about having to clean up our act before partaking of communion lest we get punished comes from the long ago church veering away from the one and true source of a clean conscience.
Fourteen (if thats age of saint, very impressive!) has something since confessing our faults is priority for healing, James 5:16 This follows along with also examining ourselves 1 Corinthians 11: 28-32, of confessing and thus forsaking said faults (sin, Greek) so as to not follow in the same example of those that were over thrown (destroyed of the destroyer) in the wilderness 1 Corinthians 10:1-16. Without chapter ten, setting up what Paul was to convey in “let a man examine himself” 1 Corinthians 11: 28, we could not see that this admonition is for us to avoid such “damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord’s body.” Verse 29. As, “these things happened unto them for examples: and they are written for our admonition,..” 1 Corinthians 10:11.
This is supported by such direct admonition, 1 Corinthians 10:9; “Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents”. We see Christ was there then, as well as here now as Christ is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow. Scripture again, supports this, as they drank of that same spiritual Rock, that followed them, that we now do, the communion, verse 16. No, this is not tradition, but scripture. Thanks
If you have not experienced the absolute damnation from, a controlling preacher,,
…then you have missed the point! Jesus INVENTED the last supper! EVERYTHING else (from God) was supernatural guidance from Supermen, Not perfect men. I you were “Born Again” you KNOW it! Why give a 8-20 speach every time, before our Lords Supper, each and EVERY time. We Know This!… from childhood. Preachers: Why are YOU torchering, and damming you congragation ever time!!! I am one of these. Yes I have a super controling pasture. He DAMNS alway… before we have THE Lords Supper. This is a BLESSING; Not a posion and/or a curse. JESUS INVENTED THE LORDS SUPPER. Not a mortal sinfull Man. I go through this every month. This is damnation from our preacher!
It hurts and comdemns…Those of you, maybe part of the” old boys CONTROL group”,
Absoute PERMANATE DAMAGE!!! from one single man. I know I am born-again, and God knows. … jesse
Yes, preaching law in any form ministers condemnation. Don’t listen to any message that draws attention away from Jesus and his gracious work. Jesus said “Do this in remembrance of me” not ourselves. And don’t forget Jesus gave communion to Judas!
I want to let you know: I am thankful to all (praise the Lord!), for helping me get through this. What I though is permant damage to my emotions, mabe temperary. God belss You…
the teaching here about the Holy Communion is well researched and it has cleared all the confusion I had about what was explained to me before. I am happy to know that it is not a sombre moment but the celebration of the death of Christ Jesus.
People they don’t gain anything from your article instead it’s only condemnation I’m sorry
As for me… I think, you also had to be there. Three years of Leadership and spiritual abuse was before all of this. Repeating, repeating, repeating of Paul’s warning, took up about 8 full mins. or about 80% of the Lord’ Supper. Saying the words disease and cancer at least 7 times (the word cancer 7 times, it was more, I just gave up and stopped counting).There were other things too. WHAT GREAT HARM!; unless one is jadded and thicked skinned be on degree.
What good does it do? In my case it warns that there truly people in a leadership role that can harm and scar other people for life. It is my job not to judge; That is for God.
One might call me a “pansy” if they must. I think we need leaders that are strong and at the same time soft when needed,,,, and to know the difference. … jesse
Thank-you for your comment, we can all (me too) can lear from each other
The table or communion speaks only “one ” language, our salvation,redemption. We have been redeemed by the blood and the broken body. This us the prize that was paid for our redemption. It us true this is grace because you were not able to pay the prize for salvation.
Now that you are saved, you are saved from the spirit of unrighteousness to now serve the spirit of righteousness. When you come to his table, examine yourself, the table is there is there to offer mercy and grace for the Fallen in their “walk” with the “lord.
When we come yo the table it is an opportunity to maintain our relationship with the lord.
Just to remind readers that to understand the “holy bible” we need to understand the “mind of God. The bible is Gods story and it is all about God. We will never understand his story unless we know his mind.
Thank you, praise The Lord !
All of the very best in your quest to ‘understand the mind of God’. Oh my goodness, what a statement to make!? Who are you sir to think that God’s complete intention with any one passage in Scripture may be fully understood by way of analysis? Phew!
God bless you Gerhard. Being lead by the Holy Spirit, many time is a very personal revelation. I must pray for us both on this.
hello Sir, I really need to get an explanations on that verse: 1 Corinthians 11:32
Please check out the Archives > Scripture Index.
Verse 32 is very plain and perfect, it needs no explanation for most Christians. …Also refer to verse 33 and the last sentence please.
To some people, I can not defend myself; even if I was truly hurt by a leader.
I can only say; chanting or repeating a threat of sickness and disease is, a hope…
not simply the reading of our God and His perfect word.
Through the actions of Jesus Christ, I have learned not to hope and pray for judgement
for another man, but for forgiveness and healing. I am Not perfect, Only our Lord is.
I (and we) are Christians,,, the only perfect man: Jesus
Jesus ‘cast out’ sickness disease, and demons. Jesus could be hash on leaders. Jesus
forgives, and is the Only perfect example of a man. No one else is God in human flesh. (I was reading the very first of Hebrews, and was reminded ogf this…)
For those who care: I am very slowly getting better. Praise The Lord!
So in Laymans terms. If I am annoyed or even angry at my earthly father and have not forgiven him (who is not Born Again), can I or can I not partake of the communion in my church. At the moment i have stopped because i have been led to believe that until I have forgiven my father I cannot partake of the communion.
Christian Brother: I am not here to stop your mission; or force you to think in a way that is thought wrong. I speak of my experience. My Lord is Jesus Christ, and I am not perfect,,, I am doing my best,,, and pray to do much better. WE all ALL simmers in the eyes of God. NO exceptions (besides Jesus). We can debate until our Lord comes;… but we are flawed. Jesus Christ is our way, our light. I really wish you very well, and I want us to help each other, not to harm or discourage one another. I pray I could wright the most perfect words to help you, to help me, and us. I seem to be flawed, but I am trying so.. hard. God Bless you. from: jesse
The article was beautifully written in a very simple matter . Thank you so much .
I read your article but I am still confused. Are you saying that if a Christian is physically ill, they just need “more faith” and they will be healed???
It is written, “Is there anyone sick among you? Let him call for the presbyters, and they will anoint his head with oil and pray, and the prayer of faith will save him, and the Lord raise him up, and if he has committed any sins, they will be forgiven him.”
There is no date stamp on the Truth. Praise God for the Truth that, sets us free. I can read this everyday. Blessings to, you.
Jesus Christ Is GOD ! No other human man who ever lived is, or was.
HE, Alone is the ONLY perfect role model ! He heals and forgives, then He heals and forgives, …..He does not stop healing and forgiving us, because we sinners and iperfect.
He saves our soul, No other man or god does. Some leaders forget this wonderful thing.
Some men take this fact of our God as first base. ….second base is to control. people.
They LUST and have insachable hunger to correct and control people. They set rank and rate
to justify this. They are super control freaks, only thinking of themselves, all the while finding
places in our Gods word to support them. They live there life In Gods word, in perfect little details within there life………This is like; seeing all the stars in the universe, and naming them,
,,all the while, never noticing the Sun. They hurt people,,,,they would love to push their thumb
through your skull, to, to force you the see the point,, the light,, (their point). They pray to God for judgement on people….to teach Others a lesson. They CHANT, over and over warnings……these kind of people pray to hurt you. Let us read and say Gods word, for it is perfect in every way; there are NO errors. The errors are,,, Us. Bless the people who curse us, pray for healing of others, help others in every way we can. Let us pray and Praise God !
As I was reading your commentary, I got another revelation immediately, keep up the good work.
Recently under a lot of confusion, cognitive dissonance etc etc I was starting to worry that I had some sort of mental illness. I was advised to take communion and make declarations of faith concerning the renewing of the mind that is the promise and portion of believers. No sooner had I done this than I started to live in a completely new mind, and still do. I can relate to the the fears that our writer had and concur with him that the boot is completely on the other foot as he maintains. Mick .www.freedomarc.org
Paul, I know you would not publish this as it would not establish your theology…
I have no problem publishing comments from people who disagree. However, I do not publish comments that have nothing to do with the post being discussed or otherwise disregard E2R’s Comment Policy. Thanks.
Quite an informative and well described and detailed piece of writing. I have not only enjoyed but I’ve picked several lessons that were previously unclear. God bless you.
This helped me teach my adult Sunday school class with taking communitiob unwirthely.
There is no grief or sorrow he did not carry to the cross but we are to judge ourselves as God judges perfectly righteous eternally forgiven and completely whole.
According to this article “hey did not properly value what Christ had done on their behalf at Calvary. Because they were not judging themselves in light of the finished work of the cross” basically implying those that get sick aren’t really trusting in the finished work of the cross, well I trust in the finished work of the cross, and I’ve never gotten so sick in my life than when I’ve taken the Lord’s supper, I almost died from taking it, and would never take it again.
This article says “Communion = good news for the sick and unworthy”
Sick and unworthy my foot, taking that is a good way to end up in a coffin.
Lee, don’t let anything stand in your way of “Communion” as, Christ our Lord told us; “this do in remembrance of me.” Luke 22:19. We are, for sure, to, “…. walk worthy of the Lord unto all pleasing, being fruitful in every good work, and increasing in the knowledge of God;” Galatians 1:10. I know you want nothing but to, “walk worthy of the Lord with all pleasing”, so be assured communion will only be good for you!
Notice, just before Paul spoke of, “let a man examine himself” 1 Corinthians 11: 28, he spoke of those that came before us and “were destroyed of serpents” 1 Corinthians 10:11. Why? Because they tempted God, but “these things happened unto them for examples: and they are written for our admonition,..” 1 Corinthians 10:11. Be admonish and thus not tempt Christ, 1 Corinthians 10:9, and we will not if we “examine ourselves” as they did not! We have so much greater access to God than they, for “If any man sin, we have an advocate, Christ Jesus our attorney in Glory! Have faith dear brother, and stay “worthy of the Lord unto all pleasing”, as is our reasonable service Romans 12:1. Thanks
Paul, guilt can certainly bring sickness and pain. Your article, however, totally misses the point of Paul’s chastisement of the Corinthians and the context of his writing. The Corinthians were guilty of not discerning the body of Christ because they failed to include some of the body in their weekly celebration. This was a feast or a meal, if you will, along with the taking of the wine and bread. Some were going hungry. Scripture has defined “the body” in 1 Cor. 10:17, 18. The bread is a “participation in the body of Christ. Because there is one bread, we…are one body.” (ESV) We are the body. While the blood establishes the new covenant, Jesus gave His body that we might become His body. Luke says that Jesus body was “given” for us, not broken. The individual pieces of the bread come back together as the one loaf of the body of Christ, the Church. Failing to discern some members as part of the body is eating in an unworthy manner. Paul’s final word in chapter 11 is “So then, my brothers, when you come together to eat, wait forl one another— if anyone is hungry, let him eat at home—so that when you come together it will not be for judgment.” Please let the context drive the interpretation. Anything else is, as you have done, forcing one’s theology upon the text. You are totally correct that this is one of the most misused and misunderstood passages in the New Testament.
I miss a lot of points when limited to 800 words. Before passing judgment on what I omit in one article, you may want to read the whole series. Thanks.
Imagine my frustration at limiting my comment to 250 words. I will check out the whole series. Thanks for the quick response.
Thanks so much. I now know that I know. But, Im still struggling to believe. But I know that I will believe. Please pray for me. God bless you
So sad that people look at this in a literal sense and forgot the spiritual purpose of it.
Instead people are more concern about correcting the pastor with a revelation and are more into correcting the Greek language 🤦🏾♀️,
This article is the truest and not deceiving at all, it is the way God meant it, being worthy to partake at the table of Christ Jesus means you must be reconciled with God though Him, His son Jesus Our Lord. How? By accepting Christ as your Lord and acknowledging the grace and love of God towards us. No amount of counting sins u commited before you come to church will make you worthy! You were made worthy when you got the gift of salvation from God the day you believed His Gospel of truth . The great commission!
Mmathapelo, it’s hard to ignore the context of Paul’s warning, in my opinion, which is that some believers were being extremely mean-spirited to those believers who were poor or weak in some way.
This seems to be a warning that those “believers” who were being mean-spirited had better rethink the way they’re acting, for such hypocrisy might be met with some kind of bodily judgment against them. They’re making a mockery of the pure perfection and holiness of Jesus by taking communion with that kind of horrible heart toward other believers.
Right, as the context of said warning (1 Corinthians 11:29,30) goes back to Chapter 10, not to “tempt Christ”, 1 Corinthians 10:9. As “Inasmuch as you have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, you have done it unto me.” seems to refer to the cause of bodily judgment in chapter 11,. True, we are made worthy (at conversion), but we also are to “walk (keep in step) in a manner worthy (the ways of true righteousness) of the Lord…”, Colossians 1:10.
If we would thoroughly search ourselves (verse 31), to condemn and set right what we find wrong, we should stop Divine judgments, as, “come not together unto condemnation” (verse 34), but rather come to celebrate his grace in our redemption, as nothing should deter serious Christians from this blessed table.
It’s interesting to note one of the greatest healing evangelists of the last century Smith Wigglesworth took communion every day. His reason? “To remind me that Christ gave his life for mine”.
A connection between his healing ministry and this is obvious.
What if your stuck in sexual sin?
Please see this article.
Did Jesus took only diseases on his body and not sin, condemnation, fear and curse. Should we remember in Holy Communion bread which represents his body broken for us only for our diseases and not sin, curse, fear and condemnation.
You are completely misguiding people with this post and teaching heretically.
Prime example – the Eucharist does NOT “represent” the body and blood of Christ. To be Catholic is to understand, believe, recognize, and know fully that the Holy Eucharist IS Jesus Christ Himself, sacrificed and present, body, blood,, soul, and divinity, presented in the form of bread and wine, but fully Christ in all ways but visual to the human eye.
No one should believe anything in this post as it is FALSE teaching and in no way aligned to the teachings of the Holy Church, the early church Fathers, nor what Christ instituted.
Heresy and inaccuracy . I pray for your sake it’s ignorance and not intent leading you to bring others astray.
Thanks as I was very confused about this; condemning myself. Believing I was bringing judgement on myself because of sin I was battling. Thank you so much for explaining this. God Bless.
I’m not so sure you are correct in your assessment of these scriptures. The Lord is indeed merciful but taking these verses in context of what was happening it doesn’t seem to fit. God’s chastisements can be severe at times. Knowing therefore the severity of God we persuade men …..God is not necessarily interested in coddeling us but bringing sons and daughters to maturity. The Bible speaks of sinning unto death. There is a sin unto death. I say not that you should pray for it. I will look further into this. Thanks for your input
Hi Helen. God is indeed interested in our growth and the primary way he facilitates that is by training us in his word. The idea that God chastises us severely or even scourges us is contrary to everything Jesus revealed about the Father. God never punishes our poor performance by giving us sickness or death. Jesus bore ALL punishment on the cross and in him we are eternally unpunishable. There is only one sin that leads to death and it is not the “sin” of doing communion badly. Thanks for your comment.
You seem to not differentiate between spirit, soul and body. We are a spirit (those that believe have perfect spirits, Hebrews 12:23), we have a soul (mind, which needs renewing) and live in a body (yet to be redeemed) . Yes, God scourges (whips) us as per scripture, Hebrews 12:6 , even to the point of death, (1 Corinthians 5:5, referring to this very thing) as our bodies are the only contact our spirits have with this world and if we do not line it up with our spirit, God intervenes with persuasion, thus the severity of God. This death is only of the body, not the spirit, as you confuse the two.
How do you know (as you say) no one has ever died due to taking communion unworthy? Those that took it unworthy in Pauls day didn’t know, as that is why Paul had to tell them, 1 Corinthians 11:30 “For this cause” means, “This is the reason”, “this is why” otherwise they would not have connected the two. Interesting how James brought out and confers; “faults” and “sickness” relate, James 5:16. Thanks
What a horrible thought. God never whips his children to death! Can you imagine Jesus doing that, even to his enemies?! I encourage you to interpret scripture through Christ, and quit making assumptions about the beliefs of those who see things differently.
For others reading this, you can find my take on all these scriptures in the Archives > Scripture Index.
I did not say “God whips his children “to death”, as you assumed, I said; even to the” point of death”. Like Job, God allowed the devil to do what he did, but would not let him kill him, yet boils can kill. So Job had no reason not to expect he would die, as he was at the “point of death”, yet trusted God ( Job 13:15) Just like the fellow in 1 Corinthians 5:5, this “destruction of the flesh”, was , I assume, similar to Job’s encounter with the devil. What ever his final (physical body) out come was, we know his spirit was saved, even though his body took a beating! Such chastening is grievous, but does produce peaceableness, Hebrews 12:11.
The idea that God was somehow complicit in the murder of Job’s children is a million miles from the heart of Jesus. Dress it up anyway you like, but your message that God kills, or nearly kills, his kids is horrific. Thankfully it is also unscriptural.
Thomas Howard the God you describe seems like a monster, one who would terrify children and break the fragile hearted. That god was not the One hanging bloodied on a cross, saying of those who put Him there, “Father forgive them for they don’t know what they are doing.”
Jesus and Father never would do the things you speak of, they are only good. A good father does not beat up on his kids to show he loves them, that sort of ‘father’ needs a visit from Law enforcement.
Our Father God says, ” Comfort my people, speak tenderly to them, all their sins are taken away” Isaiah 40.
Jesus came to reveal a Father God, and show how much They cared for us. We’d lost our way, truth, and life and were floundering around in deep darkness of soul and mind. Then the true Light stepped in to the world and the lost, poor, broken were drawn to this God…they actually started to smile and laugh, got healed and blessed!
I used to believe in that ‘monster god’ and it has been the absolute joy of my life to see more and more of the kind loving Father we really do have. Our hearts and minds are covered with a veil of law mentality if we see Abba as a judge, that is man’s made up view of God and makes our thinking so muddled that we confuse what the word good even means and think God wants us to be scared of Him so we’ll obey Him and He wont belt us! We get so confused we can’t even partake of His Communion freely and with joy. Sad. God is Love, never be afraid of Him…Jesus said so many times, “fear not”. Blessings.
That is what it say’s, God allowed satan to effect (touch) all Job had. Dressing it up any other way would be twisting it. With complicity in mind, we could bring God into all the evil of the world seeing God made the devil who steals, kills and destroys. But, God is not culpable (complicit) if the gift of choice is abused, and the possessor thereof elects to pursue the road of destruction, as did the one, Paul (who follows Christ) instructed, in the name of Christ, and delivered over to the devil. As this was not only the heart of Jesus, but his power, for God is not in word, but in power.
To say that God is complicit but not culpable is the height of confusion. If the Lord was complicit with the devil’s schemes, Jesus would not have called the latter a thief and a murderer. As you say, choice is involved. When people or the devil act contrary to God’s wishes, he cannot possibly be complicit in their choices. Satan is not God’s sheepdog and God never gave the devil permission. Read that bit again.
Right, I may not have been clear about “complicit” after you brought it up, but truly God is not complicit in and/or with the devils schemes, thus not even culpable. He only allows the devil, and , yet, “All things work together for good”, but only for those who love God, and since Job did, all things did finally work together for his good.
You are leaving out the hedge of protection that was around Job, when you say; “God did not give permission because permission was not required.” yet such hedge was the very reason for satan asking permission. When God said; “Very well, then, everything he has is in your power…” (Job 1:12) is the very moment the hedge came down or, temporarily opened the gate to Job’s hedge, to permit Satan to work his will. There is speculation as to what brought it down (maybe his fear for his children, as fear has torment), but there is no doubt as to what brought down the hedge for the one mentioned in 1 Corinthian 5:5.
I am very reluctant to build a theology that paints God the Father as different from God the Son based on a metaphor used only by the Father of Lies.
Thomas, Jesus came to show us the real true God, what God really looked like. Up until then the people had only vague ideas of God, and would have put their own interpretation on Him…as some people still do today, we are all learning.
Jesus said ‘No-one has seen the Father, except the One who is from God…’Jn 6:46 That being the case, we are far more sure if we take our view of Father from the One who did actually know Him, and who was the exact image of Him. Some of the best scripture folks of the day wanted to get rid of Jesus because He did not ‘look like’ the god of their interpretation of the scriptures! It would be a bit like you Thomas, telling people what I am like….you only have a glimpse of me and it would not be a true report.
Jesus revealed a God who is Abba, Daddy, Father, One who cares deeply for all His children. A Father who healed and helped and delivered and wanted to bless. A Father who forgives and loves and has arms wide open, who smiles and laughs and cares.
Jesus did not give boils/sickness to anyone, did not say to anyone this sickness is to help you, so go your way and suffer on!
You can quote scriptures until the cows come home, but if Father God does not look and act like Jesus, then it is not the true God.
True that Sm, all that you shared! God is love! So much (or in this way) that “he gave” us his son, John 3:16. But, “never be afraid of Him…”?
Then why did, “great fear came upon all the church” Acts 5:11. This fear did not stop at the church door, but spread “upon as many as heard these things.” These things that Paul E. contributes to fluke, coincidence, chance, yet got to ask yourself this question, why such fear for fluke sake (actually, a double fluke)? Were they fearful of flukes? No, the only thing that we can contribute to this double fluke is intervention of God the Holy Spirit. What effect did it have? No man dared to join them, but only those who “believed”, verse 13,14! Got the church cleaned out. Vengeful, hate filled God? As far as: vengeful, Romans 12:19 , and hate, Psalm 5:4-6 (God the father does not change, Malachi 3:6) . It goes on to say that, “ many signs and wonders wrought among the people”, adding to this occurrence. I believe that such signs and wonders will again be for the church in these last day’s, as God prepares for what is coming, see The Oracle: By: Jonathan Cahn.