“One Way Love” by Tullian Tchividjian
One of the biggest stumbling blocks to grace is the thought that God’s love for us is unconditional. Perhaps you’ve heard, “The phrase ‘unconditional love’ is nowhere in the Bible.” That’s because the Bible writers were good writers who knew how to avoid redundant qualifiers. The phrase “unconditional love” is like “sunny sunshine” or “wet water.” Don’t you see? Love must be unconditional or it’s not love. There is no such thing as conditional love.
One Way Love, by Tullian Tchividjian, is a book that unpackages the glorious benefits of God’s unconditional love for us. It proclaims the good news of “God’s inexhaustible grace for an exhausted world.” It’s a book that will set you free from performancism in all its forms. It’s a book that will liberate you to being okay with not being okay.
Here’s a taste:
The Gospel of Jesus Christ announces that because Jesus was strong for you, you’re free to be weak. Because Jesus won for you, you’re free to lose. Because Jesus was Someone, you’re free to be no one. Because Jesus was extraordinary, you’re free to be ordinary. Because Jesus succeeded for you, you’re free to fail. (p.36)
There’s a factoid at the start of One Way Love that fries my mind: “The average high school kid today has the same level of anxiety as the average psychiatric patient in the 1950s.” This is shocking, but not surprising since the mantra of this world could be “perform or die trying.”
Sadly, this same performance mentality afflicts the church. You may have heard that you’ve got to work hard for Jesus. You’ve got to bear fruit, reap a harvest, and impact your city. I’m not denying the need; I’m objecting to the mindset that says you have to make it happen. I am opposed to the discriminatory practice of giving love to those who are getting the results while ignoring those who are falling through the cracks.
Tullian Tchividjian is known partly because he is Billy Graham’s grandson. But what is far more interesting to me is that he is the father of three children, including two teenagers. You see, grace is all well and good when preached from the pulpit but it’s at home and in the workplace where grace is actually revealed. What I particularly loved about this book was Tchividjian’s honesty when it came to his need for grace at home.
I haven’t graduated from my need for grace, and I never will… I still hurt the people I love. I wake up to the same demands that you do. I live with the same anxieties and insecurities. I know from personal experience, as you do, that the weight of life can be crushing. And even though I spend hours every day thinking and talking about grace, I struggle to believe too. But it is inside the pressing context of everyday life that one-way love becomes more than a theory, more than an idea, more than something that churchy people talk about on Sunday. It is there that one-way love becomes that which brings life and relief into our weary, scared bones. (pp.46-7)
One Way Love is an excellent introduction to the unconditional love of our God. (It reminded me of He Loves Me, by Wayne Jacobsen.) If I had to pick one small thing about the book that didn’t entirely resonate, it would be the last chapter where we are told we are “100 percent righteous (and) 100 percent sinful.” This is confusing. I understand that Tchividjian is trying to reconcile the lofty claims of the gospel with the muddy realities in which we live. But the fact is, you are one with the Lord and Jesus isn’t 100 percent sinful. He’s not even one percent sinful.
I’m not claiming to be perfect. I know my behavior is far from perfect. But I am not defined by my behavior. I am defined by Christ. Don’t you see? It’s a faith thing. It takes faith to look at Jesus and say, “As he is so am I in this world” (1 John 4:17). It takes no faith to identify with your mistakes and define yourself as the world does. Walk by faith, not by sight.
That said, I am very thankful for honest guys like Tchividjian who aren’t reluctant to talk about their great need for grace. We all need grace and the moment we start pretending that we don’t, we’re in big trouble.
So if you are honest about your need for grace, One Way Love is a book that will bless you.
See all E2R’s book reviews here.
Escape to Reality 
it always seems to boil down to the same common denominator,how saved do we think we are, we can debate, we can discuss,argue etc,but if you think salvation that somehow you need to add to it,you get stuck,as far as I believe ive come,i still find myself,getting stuck. im always trying to make the love conditional.
This young generation will readily receive and understand the gospel because they are well acquainted with the perils of performancism. In many cases, we’ll see the older generation finally accept the true gospel because of the fruit they see in the youth.
100% righteous after faith in the gospel of Christ……..the great news of Christ……….. 100% sinner before that transaction. I can still sin (I sure don’t want to because of Grace, but in my growing process, I boo boo until I am able to find the fullness of faith in grace and rest in Him!!) but I’m not a sinner in God’s eyes, He see Christ’s blood sprinkled on me!!!
I have recently been challenged by this verse in the KKV , “of His fullness we have all received and grace for grace” John 1:16
This article prompted this challenge again. Grace is not a law of grace. That is grace is not something that we must work at, strive towards, constantly remind ourselves of, take ourselves ( or others) by the scruff of the neck to integrate and work at applying.
Grace comes to our lives by grace alone . It is revealed by grace alone. Grace is integrated and applied into the fabric our lives ( not just our home lives but into every aspect of our lives by grace alone. Let’s not fall prey to the deception of performance orientation in the application of grace to ourselves or to others for that matter. “Of His fullness we have all received – and grace for grace”
This may sound redundant but I have to share it “Grace that you have to learn, remember and apply yourself is not grace- it’s just more law in a fake grace wrapping.”
Heyy, thanks for another brilliant review. Im just a complete sponge for this sort of literature so thanks for searching it out and writing your thoughts 🙂 (my bookshelf on the other hand is not thankful, and dreads the next review due to its imminent collapse)
Hope you’re well man 🙂
The same thing I have always believed when we try to explain God’s goodness in our own perception, rather than a revelation by God’s spirit.
It’s not confusing. He believes he is a sinner at the same time a saint. Read his language again. There is no light yoke or the peace that surpasses all understanding. The words, in case you do not recognise them, are subtle condemnation. That’s why he needs grace so much. When we need grace so much, we probably do not understand grace. A couple of your readers do. Look at that, I said we, like Paul.
Is it possible to be perfectly satisfied and content with the gospel , perfectly resting in the sufficiency of Christ on out behalf in all things and yet hunger and thirst to become a better lover and less egocentric in our relationships and to desire by grace alone not to grieve the Spirit with ungracious words we speak?
Paul, the apostle of grace in the letter of grace said, “and do not grieve the Holy Spirit with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. Get rid of all bitterness, rage, anger and slander”
Eph 4:25ff
Notice it is those who are the recipients of grace and those who understand and embrace grace that can yet grieve the Spirit with harsh words and bad attitudes. Being under grace doesn’t mean we never grieve our gracious God’s tender loving heart.
If you do not accept his unconditional acceptance of you , for the sole reason that the cross revealed this unconditional love, you remain a slave like the gibionites,you bring old bread and wine , you speak of a long journey but have no letter of authority , you carry water and chop wood.But you are welcome in my home.The reason people do not accept this unconditional acceptance is that they still believe in death, they believe that Jesus will somehow in the future ressurect them or give them eternal life, to have it now is just to good for the brain to comprehend, people find it difficult to believe impossible things, but say that anything is possible for our God.
Yes, too good for the brain to comprehend – I feel so much like that at times – and after 40 years of wrong christian thinking even harder maybe !? Renewing the mind from thinking like the world + renewing the mind from christian good&evil mindsets into ONENESS where all things ARE possible and I can do ALL things in Christ. It’s our Fathers’ good pleasure, we live in His pleasure.
Love you guys, righteousness peace & joy, we’re ONE!!! (my way of praising God!)
thanks Chris, I needed some encouragement. brother.
Grace that is not current and present is no grace at all. If I say I am trusting the grace that saved me in the past when I first believed and that I am trusting in the grace that will come me when Jesus Christ is revealed from heaven but I am not currently trusting in grace presently in have departed from the gospel of grace. If I am not trusting grace in my present life then my confidence has presently shifted to something other than Jesus grace alone.
We are not saved by a gospel we once stood on or will stand on by and by when Jesus returns. The gospel we are saved by is the gospel that we are standing in right now!
Now I make known to you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which also you stand, by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain. (1 Corinthians 15:1, 2 NASB)
Chris I worry that you may be unintentionally embracing a kind of “grace understanding elitism” among Gods people by your comments. Have you embraced a kind of separation and distinction among Gods beloved people by relegating those who have little or no understanding of grace to being mere ” wood carrying” spiritual nobodies in Gods sight? Have you unintentionally made understanding grace the new merit badge of promotion in Gods household? Let me challenge your assumptions with this question: Are Gods children blessed by Jesus grace alone or by our understanding of His grace ?
Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest. But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), (Ephesians 2:3-5 NASB)
barry, i think chris is just a right brained person 😉
Sorry Chris- I am so right brained I failed to see the beautifully and expressively written comment you posted. Never sing a song, write a poem or communicate a word picture to a scholastic theologian or he will find something theological to critique it about. 😉
“The phrase “unconditional love” is like “sunny sunshine” or “wet water.” Don’t you see? Love must be unconditional or it’s not love. There is no such thing as conditional love.” Love that line. Thanks for referring the book. Will check into it. Blessings.
I would like to make little self disclosure in my own journey into grace. I have discovered that whenever I attempt to apply the message of grace to myself by myself I cannot do it. I find when I attempt this self application of grace my flesh refuses to trust in grace, refuses to submit to grace and my heart just won’t release it’s it’s iron clad paddle lock to allow the sunshine of Gods unconditional love in. I do believe this impotence to receive and fully embrace Gods unconditional love through the gospel is not merely psychological but it is rooted in what Paul calls the flesh. ” in my mind I agree with grace and my heart even longs for it but there is another sin law at work in me that rises up and disempowers me from submitting to Gods grace and love. Try as I might my heart will not fully embrace the gospel of grace.
But thanks be to God when I cease trying to grasp grace, when I cease trying to apply it to my life and I simply look away from myself altogether towards Jesus – in complete self abandonment – I find in that Jesus gaze that my heart’s resistance to grace melts away and I am fully ravished by His unconditional love.
We need grace for grace and we receive that grace by looking away from ourselves altogether in order to look into the face of Jesus . This is how I have learned to enjoy grace fully.
Yes God’s love is unconditional. He loves his children all the same. But does he treat the naughty ones differently to the well behaved? A human father does, so does God?
Brian- what did you have in mind by the word “treat”? If you meant- does God somehow withhold spiritual blessings from a disobedient son of God- the answer would be – absolutely not. The Bible clearly teaches that every blessing from God comes entirely by faith alone apart from anything in our performance or behaviour . So then those who are of faith are blessed with Abraham, the believer. (Galatians 3:9 NASB) If you cannot secure or maintain the blessings of God by your performance or your behaviour but by faith alone then you cannot lose them your performance or behaviour either. If you meant “treat” by , “Does God as a loving, omnipotent and all wise Father exercise special loving care and grace to sovereignly challenge, rebuke, train or -if needed to discipline with increasing measures of pain until His disobedient child responds appropriately- the answer is – He sure does! (Hebrews 12:5-11) If God does nothing to a disobedient person then that person is not a true son of God! When you don’t get any divine spankings you need to get saved!
Hello Mr. Midmore, the idea that some of us are good is a human perspective. We all fall short of God’s glory. Thankfully, He does not favor us based on our behavior, because we all miss the mark. The distinction is – in Christ or not in Christ. If we are in Christ, there is nothing more we can do to add that perfection. All the good works of Mother Theresa add nothing to the completed work of the cross. Her standing is in Christ, your standing is in Christ, and my standing is Christ. Truly good works are Christ working in me and through me. They must be produced out of a relationship with Jesus. Therefore, our focus is not our works, but Jesus Himself. He is the source of love, so good works done in love are authored and finished by Him. Blessings
God is love he is the source, we cannot love without first accepting his love, and only work done in love counts , so yes LJP you are absolutely correct.
LPJ- hope you don’t think I’m picking in you bro-for some unknown reason you seem to equate Gods discipline to somehow falling short of a demonstration of His unconditional love. F or those whom the Lord loves H e disciplines, A nd H e scourges every son whom H e receives.” (Hebrews 12:6 NASB)
I’m wondering if your experience personally with discipline was that love was with held to you when you were rebuked, chastened or trained by earthly authority figures in your life.
The bible clearly is telling you here that God chastens those he loves for their good . God is perfectly loving all the time towards His beloved children- His wrath has been PROPITIATED by Jesus blood yet in loving affection , because of his unconditional love He trains us using hardship and pain and calls it discipline.
Endure hardship as discipline; God is treating you as his children. For what children are not disciplined by their father? (Hebrews 12:7 NIV)
I did not ask whether God treats those who ARE good differently to those who are bad but does he treat those who DO good differently to those who do bad? I agree that our standing as a covenant member in God’s family is not affected by our actions. This is not at issue.The question is ‘Does God discipline badly behaved Christians in order that they might behave better’? A human father does this, does God? From your answer you seem to be saying No. But is this position Biblical. In Revelation Jesus rebukes some churches who were misbehaving and commends others who were doing well. His response to the churches was determined by their behaviour.
Hi Barry, how do we take what your saying from the classroom to the street? In the case of a 15 year old boy who has no earthly father and is carrying more pain than most of us experience in a lifetime, do we say this is God correcting you? This is why we must be lead by Jesus. When we try to operate on our knowledge we don’t always choose the appropriate principle for the situation. The original question was about “naughty kids”. It is the goodness of God that leads “naughty kids” to repentance. If we are abiding in God’s love, of course He teaches us and nurtures us, but give us pain? I would say the cross is an indication that He takes our pain rather than gives us pain.
Regarding picking, maybe it was your conscience that said you were picking on me because I thought you were an equal opportunity picker. In fact, excessive nit-picking is a known cause for some folks feeling uncomfortable about commenting, as they would rather avoid getting nit-picked by a nit-picker. Studies show nit-pickers can get so involved with the specks of others there are times when they can overlook their own planks. 😉
You may well be right that I have a plank lodged in my eye . I apologize for challenging your opinions .
If you do have a plank in your eye, that would just be human. I’m not as concerned about my opinions as how the gospel gets portrayed to real people. It’s not about my opinions being better or your opinions being better, but people’s lives being changed by the gospel. Sometimes we have to let someone miss a jot or a tittle in their theology and be led to what they really need. Most people just need help and don’t even care about theology. They just need Jesus. I think you have a lot to add to the discussion and I apologize for my crude humor.
Thank you for your kind words LPJ
Hey Brian, hows it going?
He doesn’t actually. He treats us all the same which is pretty crazy…the prodigal son story even takes this a step further and reveals that God lavishes his love on us particularly when we’ve been naughty.
When were younger we developed our picture of God and the world through the way our parents treated us. So for example if they were strict and angry with us everytime we we’re bad, then unconsciously this is how learned to understand God, and we would then carry this on into our lives as we grew up. But God is nothing like our earthly dad’s, he’s the worlds best dad by far. Like LJP says really well, we need to filter everything we know about God through Jesus and his finished work. In Gods economy every worker gets paid the same even if some have only worked an hour and others a full day. Not fair, but that’s grace..undeserved favour. The only different treatment the naughty kids get, is more love.
John – Gods training and discipline of His beloved Children is never is anger. Again you too make the erroneous assumption that divine discipline is a lack of affection, love acceptance and you equate divine discipline with the way selfish , angry and capricious human fathers discipline .
Discipline should never be equated with anger- not in humans and especially not with God.
Jesus blood PROPITIATED ( satisfied Gods just and holy anger against sin ) in every one if his blood bought children. Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God’s wrath through him! (Romans 5:9 NIV)
Although God is never angry at His children he still disciplines them in love for their good. For Him not to do that would make him less than loving and a less than perfect Father.
The gospel truth is that God demonstrates his unconditional love by disciplining His children so that they may share together in his holiness :
They disciplined us for a little while as they thought best; but God disciplines us for our good, in order that we may share in his holiness. (Hebrews 12:10 NIV)
And BTW-most divine spankings result from rejecting his grace and trying to earn his favor by self effort!;)
In Revelation, however, we find evidence that God treats his children according to their behaviour. The church in Ephesus for instance will have their lampstand removed if they don’t return to their fist love and DO their first works. I agree God goes on loving us but the issue is ‘how is this love expressed’? From the evidence of the Ephesian church this love is sometimes expressed in discipline.
Heh Brain – blessings upon you. I think it is critical to a proper exegesis of Jesus words to Ephesus to remember that these words were not spoken to any individual but to the entire church in Ephesus. The warning of divine discipline corporate . We in the west are so steeped in individualism that we cannot fathom or even comprehend an entire congregation being lumped together in the Lords rebukes, commendations or warnings but this nascent modern individualistic paradigm would be just as unfathomable to the first century reader. They would never perceive themselves as isolated individuals distinct from the whole church. Jesus hasn’t changed. He doesn’t submit to or recognize our modern individualistic paradigm. He still rebukes the entire congregation and not merely individuals.
Yes we like God understand that our naughty children need more love .
The “naughty” kids I’ve worked with were carrying a heavy load of pain on their shoulders. What they needed was more love in the form of exhortation, as confirmed by the Holy Spirit through Chris and John. The accepting, unconditional kind of love that cannot be explained or comprehended in the mind, but only experienced in the heart; the powerful, life changing love of Jesus that heals and makes us whole. Thank you for your comments.
Thank you too man:-)
Love that LPJ -Gods unconditional love is His banquet that we His called and chosen ones have been invited to and it’s not a banquet you have to pay anything to get into and not a pot luck banquet. We bring no thing to Gods banquet eating table!
“Ho! Every one who thirsts, come to the waters; And you who have no money come, buy and eat. Come, buy wine and milk Without money and without cost. “Why do you spend money for what is not bread, And your wages for what does not satisfy? Listen carefully to Me, and eat what is good, And delight yourself in abundance. (Isaiah 55:1, 2 NASB)
I have somewhat understood Gods discipline as not so much correction as,the more of that type of love that we experience the more corrected we become,I always think of, when Moses said to the lord let me see your face,and the Lord said no one can look on my face and LIVE,like looking into the sun,out of our ignorance as such God knows if we are exposed to somethings it might hurt or in the case of the sun fry you us , in a way its the same thing, sometimes its more love, sometimes we dont understand something, we pull away and expose our self to attacks from the enemy,etc, when you back away from the fire it begins to get colder,and the things that are afraid of the fire get brave,so when we miss the mark so to speak,for what ever reason,the proper discipline or correction is built in to system. we are no surprise to God…………a self correcting system so to speak [I should have said that in the first place,it would have saved words.
Hey Barry, how are you?
I completely agree, “Gods training and discipline is never in anger”.
But, if we wanna stay true to the original Greek (Hebrews 12 specifically) then we shouldn’t be separating “Gods training and discipline”, for they are both one and the same.
Cmon man, you can’t write that ive erroneously assumed Gods discipline is lacking in love, affection and acceptance. I believe it’s nothing but love, affection and acceptance :-D!
I did wanna ask though, how do you understand Gods discipline from your end? You’ve mentioned it a lot but how does it manifest itself to you, and when have/do you experience it?
And btw, I’ll admit to my fair share of self effort since accepting Gods grace, and plenty of moments where I’ve stupidly used my freedom to indulge the flesh, but i’ve never received a divine spanking for it…maybe we just have different Dads 🙂 …i know you said it in humour, but in struggling to get my head around a loving spank 🙂
God doesn’t treat us like cattle who just need a good prod to get them going in the right direction.
Hope you’ve had a good day.
I hear ya bro! In my personal experience Fathers training is more in the lines of not stopping the natural consequences of my own stupidity. But like Joseph I have been deeply betrayed by people I deeply loved . tLike Joseph said to his brothers , “You meant it for evil but God meant it for good.” I always find it amazing that the same word used to describe the brothers evil “meant” is the same word he uses to describes Gods intention . What? God meant to have Joe sold out as a slave, to have him falsely accused and thrown in the dungeon until iron entered his bones!!!!
People mean to do evil towards us God means The same events but he means it for good. Most of my problems in life came to me by misinterpreting Gods love. I want His love to look like no pain or trouble for Barry. Here is what His love really looks like tho:
Just as it is written, “F or Y our sake we are being put to death all day long; W e were considered as sheep to be slaughtered.” (Romans 8:36 NASB)
Hey man, i totally hear you as well. Sorry to hear about your experiences.
And it absolutely is the same word. But, God was in no way the author of what happened to Joseph.
Josephs brothers meant his ordeal for evil; they completely wanted it to have the ending they desired. But God meant it for good. That is, while God did not orchestrate the harm, and false accusations that flew against Joseph (Our God is better than that), he did intend to bring good out of it. A good that would ultimately “give life to many people.” (Gen 50:20b)
Gods word translation reads: “Even though you planned evil against me, God planned good to come out of it.” (Gen 50:20a)
Reminds me off the cross 🙂
Surely he took up our pain and bore our suffering, yet we considered him punished by God, stricken by him, and afflicted.” (Isaiah 53:4)
God is the one who bears our pain and lifts it up not the one inflicting it through love as you seem to be suggesting, particularly in your Romans 8 interpretation. Romans 8:36 is qoute from Psalm 44 detailing exactly what the followers of Jesus were facing every day because of their faith in him. In context, Paul is encouraging the believers, telling them that the persecution and suffering they are enduring cannot, and will not, separate them for Gods love (Romans 8:35)
“The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I have come that they may have life, and have it to the full.” John 10:10
Don’t confuse the devil’s ministry with Gods.
John that sounds completely logical and reasonable but tha is not what the text says my brother:
“Hasbah Elohim Raah Alay Hasabah ”
Hebrew: “God meant to happen just what you meant to happen ”
The common Hebrewism of first mention places God as the first cause of the events and the brothers as the secondary cause .
Much as the same thing when God says Moses , ” I will harden Pharoahs heart so that he will not let you go and in doing so I will magnify my power in him”
And Paul reenforces God as the being the first cause as well: For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, “F or this very purpose I raised you up, to demonstrate M y power in you, and that M y name might be proclaimed throughout the whole earth.” You will say to me then, “Why does He still find fault? For who resists His will?” On the contrary, who are you, O man, who answers back to God? The thing molded will not say to the molder, “Why did you make me like this,” will it? Or does not the potter have a right over the clay, to make from the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for common use? (Romans 9:17, 19-21 NASB)
Endure hardship as discipline; God is treating you as his children. For what children are not disciplined by their father? (Hebrews 12:7 NIV)
God has the audacity to say that when we face hardships persecutions etc that He is the One behind it!
“God is treating you”
This man was handed over to you by God’s deliberate plan and foreknowledge; and you, with the help of wicked men, put him to death by nailing him to the cross. (Acts 2:23 NIV)
But the Lord was pleased To crush Him, putting Him to grief; If He would render Himself as a guilt offering, He will see His offspring, He will prolong His days, And the good pleasure of the Lord will prosper in His hand. (Isaiah 53:10 NASB)
Above the Scriptures make it perfectly clear that although the Jews and Romans were guilty of murdering Jesus – God was the first cause of it – even says, ” He was pleased to crush him” !!!
No my friend God meant it!
Great, God is persecuting me for believing in him :-D…..and he’s behind the hardships as well, this is just getting better and better. No wonder they call it good news. And im glad you shared that bible verse from Isaiah, because i was beginning to wonder if God was loving at all. But you have re-assured me; now that i know God was pleased to crush Jesus, im satisfied 🙂
You’ve inspired me, i think im gonna make a documentary all about God. I’m gonna call it: “My Dad – The Sadistic Monster.
By the way, i was wondering if the footnote under Isaiah 53:10 in the NRSV bible, the one about the Hebrew being uncertain, was relevant at all? Actually don’t worry, its probably unimportant.
Look, i don’t wanna end this in a sarcastic manner, and i would love to jump down the whole God hardening hearts rabbit hole, but i think you have our Dad completely wrong, and until you see that i think we’ll go round in circles.
I hope you have a good day mate. Take care 🙂
Guys, thanks for the comments and discussion but from here on I will only publish those which pertain to the book above. Feel free to take any debates to E2R’s Facebook page.
As I understand divine discipline there are a few things that make it quite unique all of which are demonstrations of Gods unconditional love for His children:
1. It is never backward looking but always forward looking – Jesus took the punishment so God never looks back when training us- he is never punishing us for past sins or attitudes but using whatever it takes to help us to change our attitudes and beliefs for the future.
2. It is never in anger, impatience, petulance, resentment, revenge nor is divine discipline ever capricious or impulsive but always in perfect affection, love, self control and careful wisdom – for our good and for His glory alone.
3. It is rarely directed towards our behaviour or our performance but almost universally directed towards our attitudes and false beliefs. This is where Job’s comforters went wrong-They assumed God was dealing with Job over his performance and God was after Jobs attitudes and beliefs foremost of which was this false belief: , ” If I DO all the right things then God will bless me and if he doesn’t bless me it’s because I have not performed.” Jobs hidden false belief came to the surface like dross when God allowed him to experience every fear Job had until then had tried to avoid by his own self imposed performance orientation. Job wanted to know where he failed to perform until God showed up- then Job knew it was all about his false beliefs about God and himself.
The divine objective behind most of Gods discipline and training through hardship is to expose, confront and give us the gift of repentance in THIS ONE FALSE BELIEF: namely ;that we are loved , blessed, favoured because of something in ourselves rather than something from God alone- because of His redemption, His righteousness, His grace and His glory alone. We are born again but this cursed self centred egotistical, narcissistic performance orientation still needs to be beat out of us. God has ways of doing this- few of those ways are without pain!
God is unable to discipline you , you discipline yourself, when you have the incorrect view of God you may hear him like Adam and Eve but you will not see him, there is no greater punishment. If you place any value on things of this world you discipline yourself, this is not to say that God does not want the best for you.We choose life or death there is no punishment only choice. God is unable to punish you if your focus is correct, to live beyond what you see. You will come to the realization that the only punishment is not continually feeling his prescence.
Hey Brian; im afraid i have to disagree with you. And Barry has hit on a valid point.
The lampstand that Jesus warned he would take away, was the menorah, a seven branched lampstand that was used in the Temple. In the context of Revelation 2:5, it was symbolic of the seven churches addressed in Johns letter. A few translations substitute the word ‘lampstand’ for ‘candlestick’, which i think helps us focus in on the church at Ephesus.
So, what is Jesus NOT saying:
I’m gonna wipe out your church unless you repent!
You better return to me and carry on with the work you started or else!
He’s not a slave driver, he’s our Dad, and he doesn’t resort to threatening his sheep and disciplining them with the rod when they stray.
What he is saying though, is that when salt loses its saltiness it is good for nothing, and is thrown out (Luke 14:34-35). Likewise, what use is a lampstand that’s has no light? The Ephesians had abandoned their first love, the Light of the World, and had turned instead to darkness. They had become useless and ineffective as a church.
This is what Jesus wanted them to know, and his desire was that they returned to the works that they started in as you said, and become bearers of light once again.
“This is the only work God wants from you: Believe in the one he has sent.” John 6:29 NLT
His call is to rest and abide in him, and let him finish the good work he started in us (Philippians 1:6)
What are your thoughts about Billy Graham? I’m all for God’s unconditional love, don’t get me wrong, but that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t strive to be people who are above reproach and godly character, right? I mean, when you look at a guy like Billy Graham, who won *at least* 200 million souls total (from his crusades, God only knows how many in total), and preached to an estimated 2.5 billion people worldwide through his TV broadcasts and had impeccable sexual and financial integrity over 7 decades of extremely high prominence, one has to marvel at how much integrity Billy had. Nobody is saying he is perfect, he made mistakes and owned up to them when he made them (like the Nixon tapes), but he had a completely scandal free ministry and preached more than any other person did in human history. He was full of integrity and character and didn’t believe any hyper grace at all. Certainly you can’t say that Billy Graham was dominated by sin, correct? If this hyper grace message is so revolutionary, why is it that people who haven’t believed it have done just fine than even some people who do preach it? I just wanted to hear your thoughts out on Billy Graham’s quintessential example of integrity and lack of belief in “hyper grace”; there are many people out there who don’t buy hyper grace and still live godly lives that are full of personal integrity and moral excellence. Why is that?
You seem to be suggesting Billy Graham was unacquainted with grace. He was very well acquainted with it! He preached the grace of God every night, told people to come as they are, and millions responded. I for one am very glad he did, because through him my mother came to the Lord. Which makes BG my spiritual grandfather.
I’m pleased to hear it. I, like Billy, am all for grace, just not hyper grace. Billy Graham believed in confessing sins to be forgiven and didn’t believe many of the things hyper grace proponents say you need to believe in order to live a victorious, Spirit empowered life? Now, yes, Billy to my knowledge didn’t pray in the Spirit, so his lack of belief in that doesn’t negate its amazing purpose or divine power (I don’t believe you HAVE to pray in tongues but it is a tremendous blessing to do so and helps us to match our lives with God’s perfect will), but it’s just many people make it seem like the only Christians who live in victory over sin are those who are fully fledged in the hyper grace camp even though they aren’t. If the hyper grace message is *absolutely essential*, why is that so many people have done fine without it? I can definitely tell from my observation you and a lot of the people in your camp are wonderful, sincere Christians who live very godly lives, albeit with mistakes like anybody, but the grace to be dominated by them if that makes sense; however, there are also many people who also experience that same quality of life apart from this message, so what’s the deal then?
Distinguishing between grace and hypergrace is like trying to distinguish between water and wet water. There is no difference as far as the grace of God is concerned and certainly no such distinction is made in scripture. The idea that God’s grace is insufficient and needs to be supplemented with our works is thoroughly unbiblical. God does nothing by halves. Most evangelists preach grace for nothing else attracts sinners. It’s only later, once the sinner has signed up, that dead works are added to the mix and the whole thing is ruined. Why do people in the “mixture camp” do well? For the same reason a fish can live in dirty water.