Can You Fall from Your Secure Position (2 Peter 3:17)?

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According to some, here is a scripture that says you can lose your salvation:

Therefore, dear friends, since you have been forewarned, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of the lawless and fall from your secure position. (2 Pet 3:17, NIV)

Don’t panic. This scripture does NOT say you can lose your salvation: It doesn’t even mention salvation. Not even indirectly.

“Your secure position” is a not a reference to your unbreakable union with Christ. Rather, Peter is talking about “your steadfastness,” to quote pretty much every other Bible translation. He’s talking about the steadfastness of your mind.

Peter’s warning is about being swayed by “ignorant and unstable people” who distort the grace-based teachings of the Apostle Paul (see 2 Peter 3:15-16). We need to be on guard against unstable people lest we become unstable ourselves.

So this has nothing to do with losing your salvation and everything to do with not being “tossed back and forth by the waves, and blown here and there by every wind of teaching and by the cunning and craftiness of men in their deceitful scheming” (Eph 4:14).

How do we become unstable?

One way is to heed those who say you can lose your salvation. Believe that and you’re on the path to dead works and worry. You’ll be susceptible to teaching that says “here’s a list of things you must do to maintain your salvation.”

No, no, and a thousand times no! We are saved by grace and kept by grace. The One who began a good work in you will carry it on until completion. Trust Jesus and let nothing move you.

“Gee, Paul, I dunno. That warning from Peter sounds scary.”

It really isn’t. Read it again. Note how his warning is addressed to his dear friends. In scripture, identity precedes exhortation. Before you read the rest of the verse you need to settle it in your heart that you are a dear friend. You are literally the beloved of God. You could not be beloved of God except his Spirit has poured the Father’s love upon you (Rom 5:5). When you know how much God loves you – when you are abiding in his love – you will not be unsettled by the graceless teachings of the ignorant and unstable.

“But what about a few verses before that when Peter says to ‘make every effort to be found spotless, blameless and at peace with him’ (2 Peter 3:14). That sounds like you can lose your salvation if you aren’t spotless, blameless and at peace.”

Okay, so tell me your plan for becoming spotless and blameless. Tell me how you will accomplish what the Lord has failed to accomplish.

Do you see? This is foolish thinking that will make you unstable and insecure. Jesus alone makes us spotless and blameless. To “make every effort” is to “labor to enter his rest.” If you want to be found spotless and blameless, run to the Lord.

The theme of Peter’s message is, “Live holy and godly lives” (2 Pet 3:11). The apostle exhorts us to be holy not because there is some holiness test you must pass, but because you are holy. In Christ you are as holy as you can be, so act like it. Be who you truly are.

Sidebar: This may surprise you, but holy living is healthy and fun. Unholy living, on the other hand, will leave you sick and miserable.

So how do we become stable?

If you are anxious and unstable (have I done enough? am I really saved? can I fall from my secure position?), the remedy is found in the following verse:

Grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. (2 Peter 3:18)

Boomfah! Right there is the key to life, maturity, freedom, health, and everything else.

So here’s your choice:

  1. Listen to ignorant men who are unacquainted with Paul’s gospel of grace, or
  2. Grow in the grace and knowledge of Jesus

To put it another way, your choice is to (1) follow every half-baked teaching that comes along to unsettle you, or (2) feed on the gracious promises of God’s word.

Or to put it even another way, your choice is to (1) listen to mixed-up teachers preaching mixed-up messages, or (2) fix your eyes on Jesus and be transformed as you behold him.

I recommend Jesus.

___________

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93 Comments on Can You Fall from Your Secure Position (2 Peter 3:17)?

  1. Wow. Paul I’ve never looked at that scripture 2 Peter 3:17 that way. It really takes a twisted mind to twist the interpretation of that verse.

  2. Thanks Paul for a very useful article. I am currently dealing with this issue with someone who is finding it difficult to accept the Father’s unconditional grace in Jesus as an established fact. Years of mixed preaching has undermined so much confidence in salvation.

  3. jvtravels15 // June 29, 2017 at 1:11 am // Reply

    Excellent, thank you!!!!

  4. Amen. We couldn’t save ourselves. We were lost and no matter our best effort and works God stated our righteousness was as filthy rags. So why do we convince ourselves after we receive Jesus and His life that we can shoulder the responsibility of maintaining our salvation? Some who haven’t renewed their minds still sense the need to play a role in thier redemption. It’s like they want to go to Heaven and tell God “hey Jesus saved me but I helped!”

  5. This got me thinking about the “full counsel of God” that many law based teachers refer to. I think I would have to have a savior complex to assume I have the full counsel of God, then accuse others of falling short of my complete revelation. But I guess when I believe my own works are saving me, I do have a savior complex. The full counsel of God would not fit in any book. The full counsel of God is Jesus Himself. The Word became flesh and dwelt among us.

  6. Just a smile 😀On my face

  7. Hey Paul, another great article! I thought that the LB had a great paraphrase of 2 Pet 3:17, “I am warning you ahead of time, dear brothers, so that you can watch out and not be carried away by the mistakes of these wicked men, lest you yourselves become mixed up too.”

    Thanks again my friend!

  8. Emmanuel Oyebanji // June 29, 2017 at 3:29 am // Reply

    Thank you very much Dr. Paul for putting this up, it’s a blessing reading through. Studying the letters to the seven churches in the book of revelation this morning and I found that Jesus warns against a mix with the truth. Nothing throws a man spiritually off balance like listening to confused men preaching confusing sermons. Thanks for teaching the truth sir.

  9. Paul the first thing that came to my mind as I read this post was 1John 4:18 “There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear; because fear hath torment.” The Living Bible puts it this way: “We need have no fear of someone who loves us perfectly; His perfect love for us eliminates all dread of what He might do to us. If we are afraid, it is for fear of what He might do to us, and shows that we are not fully convinced that He really loves us. So you see, our love for Him comes as a result of Him loving us first.”
    Take a stand against all these religious teachings you have heard that are tormenting you. Tell Satan you are not going to receive his lies and deception anymore. Tell him to go from your thoughts in THE NAME OF JESUS! You are the head and not the tail, you are above and not beneath. You are seated in heavenly places at the right hand of God with Christ! You are His beloved. He will never leave you or forsake you !

  10. Great message Paul. I love how you explain things in context. I did not understand that verse until you explained it. All I knew what to do was to say the Bible cannot contradict itself. So if one verse says I’m saved by grace through faith and righteousness is a gift another cannot mean something different. But now I can share the light you have shined on this verse with others. God bless you Paul. Love you brother.

  11. The irony is that the verse, then, is really a warning against that very misinterpretation! “Be careful not to fall from your secure position by listening to people who think your ‘secure position’ means your salvation.”

    It saddens me that people seem to think there are only two states that matter: saved or unsaved. Is there nothing else important going on in the kingdom of God that the Bible could be about?

    • Yes, indeed, and the scriptures are full of such ironies. Insecurity reduces the abundant life to a very superficial existence indeed.

      • I find it amazing the amount of people, yes, even in the churches, that cannot grasp this. They refuse to believe that we are saved by grace through faith, not of our own works, lest anyone can boast in how he obeys scripture and is a good Christian. To see another Christian err, for whatever reason automatically means false salvation. That is such a hypocritical stance to take. They say they are saved by grace but live by law. There is a subtle difference grace and licention.

  12. Brandon Petrowski // June 29, 2017 at 5:47 am // Reply

    Good and encouraging word. I needed this reminder today.

  13. Roshan J Easo // June 29, 2017 at 6:36 am // Reply

    Thank you Paul, standing up straight. God is on our side. How can we fall?! ❤

  14. 2 Peter 3:17 does NOT say that true Christians can lose their salvation. The tried and true, blessed by God for over 400 years KJV reads, “Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.” The Greek word for “stedfastness” means stability. It has nothing to do with eternal salvation. Be very careful what you teach in the name of the Lord.

    • Well there is just one more NIV bad translation. Andrew Wommack calls the NIV ” the nearly inspired version”. The church I was raised in uses the NIV translation and I see why they think they should balance and blend Grace and law.

    • hi gahall

      if your warning at the end is to brother Paul, then please read the post again cos that’s exactly what he said.

  15. I really appreciate receiving these posts in my mailbox. Insightful, enlightening, and encouraging.

    • Thank you, gabby! I should have more carefully worded that “warning”. I meant it in a collective sense…that we all need to be diligent in what we teach in the name of the Lord. Just goes to show my fallibility and dependency on Christ 🙂

  16. Kathy Miller // June 30, 2017 at 2:47 am // Reply

    I think if we remember that everything changes when we accept Christ as our Savior. One being that we go from being Gods created being to now Gods child John 1:12 Romans:8:14-17 Galatians 4:4-7 1John3:1. Now we have a Father child relationship!!!!! Every child he receives he disciplines. Hebrews 12:5-11. I have known his discipline over the years and have even seen him take some of his children home to him. When a child sins his parents discipline him but HE STILL REMAINS THEIR CHILD. Its the understanding of this relationship and the scriptures that give me the Peace that even if I screw up I am still loved I am still his child and I will one day be with Him.

  17. Paul, my friend and brother from afar – there is a clarity, boldness and easy digestibility in your writings that is rare. In a simple statement: The Gospel (literally, the Power of God) comes through your written pages and seems to activate otherwise dormant operations of my heart – and I’m not alone in this as the comments affirm. It’s as if the Loving Lord Jesus that lives in our hearts is hiding on the pages of scripture in all these misinterpreted bible passages and you keep pointing Him out. “See, there He is, there’s Mr. Grace, He’s been there all along.” The evil one, satan, wants the Truth suppressed so that he can continue to have his way with humanity.

    I’m sure there are moments when you doubt and wonder if it’s worth it. Brother, you can’t stop! You are a Warrior leading the fight in a battle of the highest calling there is or ever has been. May our Lord Jesus bless, encourage, and immerse you further and further into Himself.

    Ha, I just realized that I just wrote kind of a personalized paraphrase of the vs this article is about. Yes, indeed, Peter was saying the same thing to his dear friends.

    • Thank you, Jason. You have encouraged me! And you have a way with words too. 🙂

    • Right on Jason! So many treasures and so many mistranslations. People try to define revival. When the church gets hold of these revelations and throws out religion –look out. Revival here we come!

      • jason b // July 2, 2017 at 1:43 am //

        Marjorie… ahhh the church, revelation, religion, revival… what a topic. Folks come to “church” to see what Christianity is all about and they hear messages that do not reveal Christ but instead keep Him well hidden from their minds behind a religious fortress of erroneous lies. Is it not obvious to us regular readers of E2R, and similar sources, that the nature of the Savior of humanity seems to be a secret that even organized “church” is unaware of.

        Obviously, the true church – the living organism that is Christ’s body, His bride, the elect (because Jesus is the Elect One) is safe and sound in the arms of her loving Husband – and well equipped for action too. I’m referring to the fake church. The organizational structure erected with denominations and seminaries, soaked in religious, powerless nonsense. I’m speaking harshly, I know, but we must discern that much of what is seen and known of (in mainstream form) as “church” is not a result of the Holy Spirit but of the world system designed by the enemy to hold back the truth. I surmise that we should recognize a certain level of infection in our beloved “churchness”. Perhaps the enemy of the world has come around the back door and actually infiltrated organized religion in strategic high places and is calling the shots for unwitting devotees. Our enemy does not care that we read our bibles and go to church (the Pharisees were good at that). In fact, he will encourage us to carry on– as long as we do not discover the Power of God. Seminary after seminary will churn out one pastor after another that will preach the above vs in Paul’s article in a message void of good news. At some point, we must recognize the fake (anti) organization that is not the living organism and call it out and rebuke it. When we begin to Escape to Reality, the imitation that we once held dear can be seen for the grotesque distortion that it is!

      • Marjorie // July 3, 2017 at 2:05 am //

        Yes Jason, I couldn’t agree more. When I refer to ” the church”, I am referring to the body of Christ as a whole. From the time I accepted Christ, I discerned something was wrong with church. I used to listen to the seminary clones, as I called them, and wonder why they couldn’t see how they were drenched in religion and false teaching. But who was I, but a babe in Christ ? I was corrected for researching on my own. Friends wouldn’t talk to me if I shared what I was learning. When I laid.hands on the sick and they were healed, or I operated in other gifts of the Spirit, I was a witch, but with great pain in my heart, I persevered. I knew what I was witnessing was unreality and I wanted the reality of the kingdom of God.
        I eventually wrote a book and it took me two years to let go and publish as I knew I would step on some “established doctrine” toes. Right after I released the book, Holy Spirit took me to Paul’s posts and I cried with relief. Finally, people who want to escape to reality!!
        It has been a long, lonely journey, but worth it to see the transition that is taking place in the body.
        God is a good, good Father and I don’t mean a father with a rod of correction, I mean a father with arms of love. It is His kindness that leads us to repentance. God bless!

  18. Jared Westendorp // July 1, 2017 at 11:41 pm // Reply

    I love the line you wrote that says, “Okay, so tell me your plan for becoming spotless and blameless.” That went right to the heart of the matter for me. When I contemplated that my mind went blank because the size of the task became reality. Thanks for helping me escape again.

  19. Fear-based religion is a terribly flawed mis-representation of the truth of the Gospel. It has driven untold millions away from the love of God.

  20. Miguel Gonzalez // July 4, 2017 at 1:39 pm // Reply

    Thank you, Paul! Keep on, you’re encouraging us with truth and reminding us to continue resting in Him. It is a daily “fight”, sometimes even a struggle, a conscious decision on our part to keep on believing, until we reach that “knowing” that we are saved by grace and kept by grace alone. Know and realize that nothing can ever separate us from Him once we are His children. Make it a conscious decision to believe ALL His promises for us have been fulfilled in Jesus – YES and Amen!

    There may be days when we revert to looking inwardly and seeing our own mistakes and works that don’t even come close to His standard, instead of looking upon Jesus. It’s at that moment that we need to realize, stop, and ask for His grace, and then receive it because He will supply it in overabundance. And you’re exactly right, we need to keep feeding on right preaching, His word, to be fed and full and continue to grow in the knowledge of His grace.

    Once, as this very exact thing happened to me, I got upset with myself and feelings of failure flooded me. My eyes were looking at my failures, at my imperfectness. I hate that feeling. (I had suffered with that my entire life – grew up in church! – until my late 30s.) It was then than He reminded me gently that it was exactly because of my weaknesses and failures that He sent Jesus to die for me! In my moment of failure, He reminded me to keep on sharing grace with people He would continue to bring across my path. It hit me — it’s only by your grace and because of your grace, Father, that I can share this! All glory belongs to Jesus! I’m living proof that we all need grace, we all need Jesus!

    Thanks to all who normally comment and share here. All your words are encouraging to hear. We are one church, one body. Let us continue spurring each other towards grace, not forsaking each other (ecclesia, the believers, the called out ones) but even more so exhorting one another (the ecclesia) as the day approaches.

  21. Roshan J Easo // July 7, 2017 at 1:28 pm // Reply

    There’s no holiness test to pass, but does that mean we must under no circumstance use self-effort to remain godly? what if your stressed and tired of ungodly living. Can we read the scriptures to feel healthy and sin-free? i know it’s all grace, but you’ve written to say that we shouldn’t live that way. How should we live?

    • Self effort=In the flesh
      We are not the source of life and are unable to produce life through self effort. Life is produced in us by believing in your Heavenly Father to produce His life in you. That’s Christ in me. We should live in His rest, believing Him to produce His life in us; abiding in the Vine. Blessings

      • Also, think of it this way: There are only two ways to be, God-centered or self-centered. The “ungodly living” can only be the result of you being in charge. The reason for the struggle is that YOU are trying to become better by your own effort, which is ultimately self-centered, and that’s why it fails. His life in you also transforms your mind. Once you take YOU out of the equation and live for him, the temptations necessarily diminish. You really have to be a living sacrifice.

        As far as today goes, remember Paul’s advice, “Nevertheless, to what we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule, let us mind the same thing” (Philippians 3:16). Be what God has made you TODAY and expect him to continue to change you.

    • We should live in gratitude of just knowing that the penalty that was reserved for us has been taken away and much more. Christ restored to us, spiritually, everything lost at the Garden. We just live in His love and everything will fall into place. Keep reading, keep learning for Satan will try to steal everything he can if you don’t remain focused and around like minded believers.

  22. I’m already there Paul, sold on grace. No way to lose salvation, that’s the only thing that makes any sense. I guess there is always rededicating your life-ha ha.Attended Baptist church my whole life, boy do they have it wrong.

  23. theericarnold // July 16, 2017 at 11:40 pm // Reply

    Paul,
    Have you written on “once saved always saved” and do you address the scripture from Revelations about having one’s name blotted out from the book of life?
    I thought your essays on Inclusionism were excellent.

    • Yes, I have written extensively on eternal security. You can find everything indexed in the Archives. Thanks.

    • Falling from a secure position is not losing salvation. This question has been answered many times and avalable to all in the question form, “Can a Christian lose their salvation” from or at the Escape To Realty home page.

  24. Ya know Paul, what I find it that so many people are convinced they are right when they all have a different interpretation. There can only be one. For example I am convinced in this gospel of grace you speak of. There is much I don’t understand but there could not possibly be any other way then grace. That is the only explanation why people still exist on this planet.Presbyterians believe God chooses those going to heaven and we have no say so about it, the predestination deal. They disregard that it is predestination based on foreknowledge.

    • You know John, I have been going through a terrible time of persecution as I try to reveal these wonderful things that God is revealing to me. Two things have come to my mind as I pray about this. One is that so many people are thinking with the mind of man, the carnal mind, and this limits them to understand the kingdom of God and the true meaning in Scripture. The Bible says in Romans 8:6 that the mind governed by the flesh (carnal) is death, but the mind governed by the Spirit is life and peace. We have the very mind of Christ, we have to think with it in order to really succeed. Man limits the outcome in his life by trying to figure and reason with his own ability. The things that are impossible to man are possible with God.

      The other thing I find is that we have been so brainwashed by church doctrines that we are double minded when we start to learn something new. We have no choice but to renew our minds to what God says instead of what man says. That takes effort on our part and many people do not want to leave their “comfortable pew”. I find this when I try to explain to people that we have authourity in the name of Jesus to change our situations and to rule over the powers of darkness. They would rather just sit back and say, “Good will take care of it”. Jesus told us He was giving us power and that we would do even greater things than Him. Many are just sitting around and taking the blows of life and expecting God to del with it. He empowered us to deal with it in His Name!

      I pray as Paul did, that the eyes of their enlightenment will be opened to receive revelation of the true Christ and His benefits. I for one don’t want to lose out on anything God has done for me. Bless you!

      • Wow Marjorie, that’s good stuff! Wisdom! Thank you for taking the time to write it. That encouraged and inspired me.

      • Marjorie // July 22, 2017 at 12:02 pm //

        Thanks Jason. Our God is awesome ! His ways are not our ways and His thoughts are far above our thoughts. God Bless YOU!

      • Right on Marjorie. I never got very interested in listening to TV preachers until Joseph Prince came along. I didn’t understand what he was talking about at first but something kept me listening to him. After a few weeks it began to sink in and really opened my eyes. That same gospel of grace lead me hear. I can’t talk to anyone at my own church about these things. It’s old time religion with them. I even stopped attending class because of it. I can’t be taught to live a mixed grace life when I know there is no life in it, it’s either grace or law, hot or cold, not luke warm, no wonder God said he would spew it from his mouth. Compromise is a bad thing.

      • Marjorie // July 24, 2017 at 3:04 am //

        John, I so identify with you. I said to myself yesterday, “Now I understand why you said you would spew them out of your mouth Lord!”
        I have been watching Bill Winston and I find Him so good. Amazing teacher of Faith and the power in the Word of God. Love Prince too and of course this site!

      • You so right Marjorie. As I stated above about no longer attending class, it was because of persecution, primarily from a Deacon no less who could not wrap his mind around grace, that we are forgiven of sin past, present and future yet he believes in once saved always saved, which makes no sense.We can fall from our secure position but that does not mean we lose our salvation. We are washed, baptised, once unto salvation but as Christ cleansed the feet of the disciples we also need daily cleansing from walking in the world, picking up dirt. This cleansing is done by daily scripture reading, study helps if need be and prayer. Skip a few days of that and just watch how a person is changed by the influence of the world.

      • Marjorie // July 24, 2017 at 3:22 am //

        I know how Jesus must have felt with the Pharisees ! When I share things I feel like a freak. I don’t care though. I am hungry and thirsty for more. I am declaring Scripture over myself hourly and agreeing with what God says about things, not man. I have had such revelation about the power in the Word. Our natural mind can’t perceive it, but in the spiritual realm the Word of God explodes like a bomb and demons tremble. Dunamus or dynamite power!
        Knowing a loving God has made all the difference in my life and Jesus and I have developed a phenominal relationship.

      • I was so convinced for a time that I could be used to heal anyone of anything at any time. I had never taken part in it before but convinced it could be done. I mean if God created all things, the name of Christ is above all things, we can do those things he did and greater, why not? I am bewildered with why things aren’t done now, was I wrong? Am I missing something? I’m stuck in a place I don’t know how to proceed from.

      • Marjorie // July 24, 2017 at 8:20 pm //

        John Jesus told us to lay hands on the sick and they will recover. He said we would do even greater things than him. Our part is to pray in faith and trust God. Many times when I have prayed for the sick, healing did not manifest immediately but sometimes even years later I found out they were healed. I prayed for a 14 year old girl whom had terminal cancer. I was horrified that this little girl would die so young. I didn’t see her again and then last Sunday, 17 years later, she came to my church and I held her precious little baby in my arms. Not only was the baby a miracle, but the girl I prayed for was very much alive and totally healed.
        Sometimes when we pray for someone, they really don’t believe they will be healed and they don’t receive. This not God’s fault or ours. Faith is the key to receiving. I know of two books that would really help you. One is Simplicity of Healing by Sandra Kennedy. The other is mine but I don’t think I am allowed to give you the name on this post. Sandra Kennedy had a miraculous healing and she explains how she stood on the healing Scriptures and agreed with what God says about healing. By His stripes we were healed !

  25. This may be considered off topic but I wanted to share this with you folks: I have been speaking Scripture over every situation in my life. A few months ago I was pulling weeds in my back yard. They had horrendous roots that spread all over. Suddenly the Scripture about Jesus cursing the fig tree, came to mind. I started to curse those roots and commanded them to shrivel up and die, so the weeds could not return. At one point I felt foolish and my faith wavered. I forgot about the weeds and a few days ago I saw that they had not come back except in the little patch where my faith wavered! Talk about a powerful example of the dominion we have been given to change things in this world!

  26. The true body of Christ is being prepared for TRUE REVIVAL by teachers like Paul who are reviving the Pauline revelation of the gospel of grace. This IS the REVIVAL that we have been praying for for years! The Holy Spirit is not going to anoint a “revival” of more bad religious teachings that are pouring forth from the academic based seminaries that has choked the life and person of Jesus Christ out of most church buildings. As I read these encouraging comments, I pray that God will lead my wife and I to find the people (in person) who are writing these comments, those who joyfully receive the wonderful writings of Apostle Paul by Paul Ellis, to fellowship with in person instead of electronically. Any of you live near Virginia in the U.S.? Paul Ellis, do you ever come to the U.S. to share what the Lord has shown you in person? This country is a vast wasteland of seminary filled pulpits sharing carnal religious foolishness and “social justice claptrap: having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof! HELP!

    • 100% agreed. It is the churches that are keeping the truth from us now offering a form of godliness but denying it’s power. The Government has had it’s hand in ruining the country as well as the church, issuing homosexuals ordained positions and more. I to wish to meet others of like minded belief here in Az but I guess I have to leave it up to God to provide that as you do. Thanks for the great reply. May the Lord quickly answer your petitions.

      • Marjorie // July 25, 2017 at 11:28 am //

        John C., Marjorie Keenan here–I so agree with you on church teachings. I recently started attending a new church that has been growing quite fast. I was so excited as we have only seen churches dying out in our city. I soon discovered that this church is only sharing part of the gospel. People get saved and baptized and then Holy Spirit necessity is downplayed and healing is barely ever mentioned. Everything is basically carnal minded. This is so sad to me because without knowing the wonderful messages we are studying on E2R, they gradually lose their fervor and fall away. Some ladies whom are very hungry for more, have approached me to start something in my home. I am seriously seeking the Lord on this. They want more knowledge of the Word and they want to do more worship and prayer. In our area many are using the Book of Acts example of church and they are going from house to house, praising, sharing communion and learning as much as they can about Scripture. People are hungry and thirsty for a deeper walk with God, but unfortunately many pastors are in fear and just pleasing people. Can’t make any waves or get out of control ! So sad!

      • We are of the same mind on this. A short time ago while listening to JP sermons, speaking and answering here on E2R I got a real hunger, had gone to 7 different churches and could not find truth being spoken. I wanted more then anyone had to offer. Joseph Prince suggested everyone not attending his church to attend a local co gurch so I did, Southern Baptist. Good people but no hunger. I have lost, for the most part, the hunger I had as there is no place to grow. My oldest son is a childrens pastor, of which I am very pleased. He does not believe once saved always saved due to the teaching he has heard since when I took them all to church. I’ll just give him time and share but the point is there is no place to grow and doing it alone is very hard.

      • Marjorie // July 26, 2017 at 8:53 am //

        I know John, it is very hard going it alone. I have found that I have to persevere in spite of it all. When I get alone with Jesus and keep on learning about what is available in the kingdom of God, it makes me want to push onward. I love Him so much and realize how much He loves me. I felt like Holy Spirit is saying that I should learn to walk in what I am learning and then others will see and want to know my secret. Suddenly, a few people are moving towards me and calling me for prayer. My best friend, whom I could talk to about anything, got married and we were totally separted. Understanable, but so lonely. God has been setting aside special times when we can get together and we talk and learn for hours. This enhances her marital situation too, as It really lifts her up too.
        I will pray that God will send you a special friend, of like mind, that you can share with freely. Praying that for me too! 🙂

      • It’s so nice hearing from you Marjorie, thank you. There are other things in my life that are pulling me down, stressing me, what have you. I just had to send a letter as well as an e-mail to Pres. Trump in hopes of his clearing this problem up I have in one particular area which is more time and I’m running out of time, not getting any younger, shoot, I’m 53 already, where did all the time go? Now I have nothing, living with a woman for the past 20 yrs I helped rescue from an abusive relationship, helped her raise her kids and she helped me. Mine are gone now while hers are still in the house for the most part. She is Asian. I had given up on American woman so….She is so much better off financially than I am and that to frustrates me to no end.

      • Marjorie // July 28, 2017 at 2:56 am //

        John in all your problems, this is the time to apply all of the things you are learning on E2R. God loves you so much and He wants to meet all of your needs. In 3 John :2 it says, Beloved I wish above all things, that you would prosper and be in health, even as your soul prospers. God wants us to be whole in every area of our lives. He says not to worry or be anxious for anything. He will supply ALL of our needs according to His riches in glory! He knows what you are going through and He wants to take care of it, if you will ask Him to and then trust Him to work. You can use the authority that Jesus has given you, in His name, to put the devil on the run. Command him in the name of Jesus to take his hands off your relationship and your finances. Sometimes we are waiting for God to do something that He has empowered us to do.
        God promises to restore the days of your youth. Don’t dwell on age. You are just getting started as you come into your new found knowledge of God’s love–His grace! He promises to bring back everything that the cancorworm (Satan) has stolen. He said when you catch the thief, that the thief has to return 7 fold what he has stolen. Start declaring this over your life. Find Scriptures that apply to your situations and start speaking them over yourself. Everytime you get a negative thought, replace it with what God says in the Bible. God’s word never returns void. It will accomplish what He says. He watches over His word to perform it, (to bring it to pass).
        You are not alone in this John. He will never leave you or forsake you. Give Him the reigns of your life. You can trust HIM!

      • John C. // July 28, 2017 at 1:41 pm //

        Wow Marjorie, that is one of if not thee most uplifting sets a words I have been given. Thanks. All the things you said I agree with. I get so wrapped up the problems that I can’t even think to proclaim what I have in Christ. I get so annoyed with certain people I just can’t stand it. I don’t think you realize what a tremendous encouragement you are to me. Your actually taking the time the really talk to me, I need to get in the word more, that’s true.

      • Marjorie // July 29, 2017 at 4:25 am //

        Thanks John. That means a lot to me! All my life I wanted to encourage people and when I met Jesus I found the best answer for them. Jesus came to heal the broken hearted and set the captives free. The Bible tells us to encourage one another; to laugh with those who laugh and cry with those who cry.
        I have been to hell and back since I became a Christian and most of it at the hands of other believers. Two years ago God sent me a girlfriend to talk to. We walked each other through some very hard times and it has paid off immensely for both of us. She was delivered from bi-polar and I from severe depression. It just took genuine caring and listening that we both needed. But most of all we both love Jesus and we prayed, worshipped and studied the Scriptures together. All God’s blessings are on you John–believe that and walk to victory in them!

      • Marjorie // July 29, 2017 at 4:29 am //

        P.S. Getting in the Word doesn’t have to be drudgery. Find a few Scriptures that apply to your situations and speak them over yourself daily or hourly, until they manifest in your life! The JOY of the Lord is our strength !

  27. 10lessons, I live very far away from you. I wish I could meet some of these people too! But for now I was wondering if you ever watch Bill Winston. He makes my day. Every day he talks about the very thing God is teaching me.

  28. Many have been blessed by your conversation. Thank you John, Marjorie, and Paul for the posts.

    • Thanks so much Jason! I believe we can all use encouragement. God Bless !

      • Yes, As iron sharpens iron. If I was the John spoken of here it is not who I am that is worthy of thanks but of whose I am. To God be the glory. It is the work He has promised to perfect in us.

  29. Connie j Barreras // November 27, 2017 at 3:52 pm // Reply

    This sounds like a oxymoron, how can you fall from a secure position

    • Marjorie Keenan // November 28, 2017 at 7:36 am // Reply

      So true Connie. Many things that are taught sound like oxymorons to me.
      Jesus healed them all-it’s not God’s will to heal everyone. You are healed but your not. God sent Jesus to pay the price for sin, it is finished-God is still not satisfied and he is still punishing us. You are forgiven but your not. Jesus gave us eternal life, but you can lose it. If I sound cynical it is because I am. God is not a God of confusion. Why is everyone so confused?? Maybe because they don’t really know Him-because they don’t believe what Jesus said or did is true? Jesus said if you’ve seen me, you’ve seen the Father. Did you see Jesus doing any of the negative things that His Father God is accused of doing every day? We believe Job and his friends who don’t have a clue what they are talking about but we can’t believe Jesus who by the way, is GOD! Please pray for me. I am getting very weary of trying to live the faith life, surrounded by doubting Thomas’ who try to tear down my every confession of God’s promises to me.

    • LOL, excellent point, I never looked at that way before. Like the prodigal son. always a son, welcome anytime but choosing to in a lower standard.

  30. Ralph Sanchez // January 15, 2018 at 6:40 am // Reply

    Theres not enough words I can use to express my appreciation for what has happened to me since understanding grace for what grace truly is. Coming from a extreme law based org. Nearly losing my family and my mind! I love how you you elaborated on what it means to live holy NOT by obtaining but by using what you already have! MEGGA GAME CHANGER! I cannot begin to explain the extreme difference in relation to not only the Lord but my family and those outside. Myself and a fellow Pastor will be starting a grace based Youtube ministry, and best believe much of your material will be used. To God be the Glory!

  31. This literally means that if you don’t understand Paul then don’t follow his teaching. You need to read more than one line… Who teaches one line at a time? It’s blind.

    If you read anything from Paul and he tells you not to obey the law then you misunderstood. Yeshua told you to keep the commandments in Matthew multiple times, until heaven and Earth pass away, not until Paul comes and tells you never mind. He said those who break even the slightest commandment and teach others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of Heaven. and there are more than 10 commandments. The first 5 books of Moses are full of them and blessings for keeping them. Blessings for blessing Israel and so much more. Peter is upholding this here in 2 Peter and Paul is leading you to judgement, at least the counsel of Nicea versions…

    Consider Revelation 14:12 and ask yourself why would people keep the commandments in the end times if they were undone? I don’t want to hear the mental acrobatics involved to try to make the plain and obvious something else.

    • There are 613 commandments. Have you kept them all perfectly? If not, what’s your plan?

    • momzilla76 // June 6, 2018 at 12:43 am // Reply

      I would love to see the mental acrobatics required to explain the entire book of Galatians away but especially how one blindly ignores the very obvious message of chapter 4:21- 5:11. Also how does one redefine Hebrews 8:8-13 or the story in Acts 15 about what the Holy Spirit laid upon the gentile believers so that Law keeping is for Gentile believers? As for what Jesus said about the Law everyone always stops quoting just short of “until all is fulfilled”. They also ignore that Jesus said he came to fulfill the law and as He died “It is Finished”.

    • Marjorie Keenan // June 7, 2018 at 5:30 pm // Reply

      Do you know that the Bible refers to the Ten Commandments as “the ministry of death”? (2 Corinthians 3: 4-18) If you can read the Living Bible translation, it explains it well.

    • momzilla76 // June 23, 2018 at 12:47 am // Reply

      “until heaven and Earth pass away” That is only partially what Jesus said. Jesus said nothing would pass away until all is fulfilled. Jesus also said that He came to fulfill the Law.(Matthew 5:17-18) If Jesus came to fulfill the Law did He return to heaven without ding so? Honesty requires a No. So Jesus fulfilled the law and the prophets. Just as He fulfilled the prophesies for the messiah.(I only note that as some have redefined fulfill to mean something else entirely) Yes there is more than the 10 commandments yet the 10 commandments are the First covenant(Deuteronomy 4:13 & 9:9) and we are told that we are under a new covenant unlike the old one(Hebrews 8:6-13) Then we have the apostle Paul’s uncomfortable message in Galatians 4:21-5:9 is strong wording about bondage and freedom, symbolically Hagar and Sarah. You are arguing for Hagar and bondage. 😦
      As for Revelations you have been taught the bias that every time the word commandments is used in the new testament it means Laws of Moses. A plain reading abiding by context shows that is not the case.

    • John W Reed // June 23, 2018 at 12:54 pm // Reply

      Sadly, Hebrew Roots deny Paul’s Epistles as Scripture. Jesus was pushing Law to expose to us all the need for the Savior. When Paul He revealed once we come to faith in Christ, we no longer need the Law as our master. Jesus comes within and leads us personally through His Spirit.
      You mentioned Peter, but it was Peter himself that acknowledge he no longer lived under Law but Grace in Acts 15. Blessings to you

  32. TaunyaRae Hicks // June 14, 2018 at 4:19 am // Reply

    There is no danger whatsoever, of “losing” salvation. That is where the topic takes a turn, getting muddled, due to the word “lose”. The statement doesn’t even make sense. Walking away…of your own free will is a completely different scenario. There are pages and pages of scripture that you have to throw in the trash, if you don’t believe that a person can walk away. (Matthew 24::45-50, as just ONE example). I want to take ALL of scripture to heart, not simply the parts that I like. Romans 8:31 is an example of misuse…”Nothing can separate us from God’s love”. You do know that God loves Hitler? God IS love…He cannot NOT love. PLEASE, take ALL of the scripture, study them thoroughly, and know complete truth.

    • God forbid that we throw scripture in the trash, especially when he has given us a hundred-plus promises guaranteeing our eternal security. However, in these short articles I am limited to unpacking one or two scriptures at most. I encourage you to check out the archives for the rest. You may be interested to learn I have written an entire book on Matthew 24. Short version: the parable of the faithful/unfaithful servants is not about God unchilding his children.

    • momzilla76 // June 14, 2018 at 12:56 pm // Reply

      So if you are taking all scripture into account you need to heed the ones that describe actual changes God does to us. Everything from killing off the old man, to giving us a living heart in place of our stone one, sealing us forever with the Holy Spirit, Jesus putting His one time blood offering on all of our sins. That is just a tiny list of things that are done or changed in us.
      We may choose to walk away but do we have the power to resurrect our old man, break off an eternal seal, yank out our loving heart and put a stone one back in, etc.? I have yet to find anything in scripture that says that we have the power or the ability.

  33. TaunyaRae Hicks // June 18, 2018 at 2:33 pm // Reply

    I understand what you’re saying, but I do not think that you are understanding what I am saying. When a person is so far in one direction that they cannot really hear, it can be a dangerous extreme. Such as the question above: “There are 361 laws. Have you kept all of them? If not what’s the plan? “. My response was, “Forgiveness”. Let me explain… There is absolutely nothing whatsoever, I, or any of us have done to earn salvation. It is by the blood of Christ alone. Works are dead. However, it is automatically assumed that we believe there is a working for salvation involved. Absolutely not. 1) The prodigal son is a perfect example. The father still loved him, still wanted him to return, and waited for him. But it was up to the son to actually come back. 2) Jesus, in John 6:67, asked his disciples if they wanted to turn away from Him. Why would He ask that question if it were not a possibility? 3) Heb 10:26. 4)John 15:1ff IF we remain in the vine. REMAIN means that you are WITH Him, part of Him. We are all pruned, but only those that REMAIN in Him bear fruit, and REMAIN. Verse six makes it very clear that anyone who does not remain is thrown aside, and eventually thrown into the fire where they are burned. I don’t know how this could be any more clear. 5) Matt 24:23 6) Even Paul referred to making it through… And I think we all know that he was absolutely chosen by God, for a specific purpose. So if he acknowledged that you could walk away, or stay with Christ…of your own fee will…I’m gonna go with that. (2Timothy 4:6-7, as well as other passages). I have been hearing more and more of this teaching within the last 20 years, and I believe it is a sign of the end times. We all like to hear things that make us feel good ( itching ears the Bible refers to…2Tim 4:4).

    • I understand what you’re saying perfectly. I’m just trying to find common ground in our disagreement. You agree we are saved by grace; I maintain we are kept by grace. It’s grace from start to finish.

      You mention a number of important scriptures. If you are interested, my take on all of them can be found in the Archives > Scripture Index.

      Yes, we do like to hear things that make us feel good and that’s what the gospel does – it fills us with great joy (Luke 2:10).

    • momzilla76 // June 19, 2018 at 6:54 am // Reply

      The prodigal son never stopped being a son. He was still a son despite his sinful living. He just did not get to enjoy the benefits of being a son while staying in the far country.
      I have an unique observation about itching ears after a fair amount of people who think having a secure position in Christ is ear tickling. Nothing pleases the flesh more than to be told it’s strength or staying power are the key to entering heaven. The thing the flesh fights the hardest is submitting 100% to the finished work of Christ and the security that He gives us not of our own deeds(staying ability) so that no one can boast about how the gained(or stayed for) eternal life.
      If eternity is based upon us(our ability to stick it out) the most vulnerable people in Christianity are at risk of losing their salvation, not because they genuinely don’t believe, but all because they have broken brain chemistry that creates depression and/or anxiety both of which create unhealthy negative thought patterns which seriously interferes with continuous faith-trust(sticking it out). Thank God eternal life is not dependent upon broken brains and faulty chemicals.

      • TaunyaRae Hicks // June 21, 2018 at 2:19 am //

        Re: Your perspective on itching ears… I would love to believe the way that you do. Who would not want to believe that way? But again I have to go back to the Scriptures, and there are simply too many to ignore, and I cannot do that.

      • momzilla76 // June 23, 2018 at 12:26 am //

        The scriptures do not define what itching ears are. Christian tradition has done that for the most part. Through observation I realized that my definition fits the broader scope of the whole gospel message better than traditions view.
        Some of what we think is “pure straight scripture” is instead simply biased interpretations we acquired from the church/pastor/teachers we learned from and the filters they taught us through. For example people who believe you need water baptism to be saved read Jesus words about water and Spirit in John 3 and see confirmation of that belief because of their overlying filter they were taught about it. However if one reads the passage for what it plainly says and best fits the context most see Jesus use of water as being the water from human birth not baptism.
        Take great care that you are truly reading the scriptures for what they are saying(based upon local context, groups it was directed to and the broader scope of the gospel-new covenant) and not because of the traditions, biases and filters of our particular church or teachers. I only say all of that because what you call too many scriptures to ignore depends upon what preset viewpoint you are reading those particular scriptures through.

  34. TaunyaRae Hicks // June 18, 2018 at 4:43 pm // Reply

    Cute😀 You know what I mean. The disciples did not WANT to hear that Jesus was going to die, but that reality didn’t change, simply because of their lack of desire. Some things are difficult to accept, but the truth remains…whether I like it or not. I have friends in the past give me the same reasoning that you have, and we were able to have many conversations…so I think that I know where you are coming from. I don’t generally post ANYTHING on websites, but thought I would enter the conversation. I do appreciate the fact that you are willing to allow the opposing view to shown as well. Blessings🤗

    • Regarding liking it or not, would you say that something called “Good News” would be something that most people would like?

      • TaunyaRae Hicks // June 20, 2018 at 11:22 am //

        Of course. That is EXACTLY what the word “Gospel” means…..good news. But not all news is something that we, as humans, want to hear. Again, I want to take ALL of scripture…what is GOOD NEWS, AND the difficult stuff. I had an ultra intellectual friend years ago… He and I would have many conversations in this regard. When he would come across one of the passages he didn’t like, his response was, “That’s a difficult passage”. My response: “No, it’s only difficult because you’re trying to write that passage out of the Bible”.

    • Are you saying the difficult passages are not the gospel? If it’s not the gospel, should we live by it? In my experience, when it was difficult, it was me and my flesh making it difficult. Jesus said, “My yoke is easy and My burden is light”. There is a rest when we abide in Jesus. We don’t have to delete passages of scripture, but our interpretation should not disturb the rest we have in Jesus. A correct understanding is going to produce His life and manifest His rest. The only time Jesus gave someone a hard response was when they wanted to live by the law. He gave them a full dose of the law so they could see it would never produce life in them. But, come to Jesus, all you who labor and are heavy laden, and He will give you rest.

  35. TaunyaRae Hicks // June 18, 2018 at 4:48 pm // Reply

    Sorry, meant to add…the reason that I did initially enter in, was simply to point out, that the word ” lose” is really invalid regarding the topic. Again, Blessings TRH

    • John W Reed // June 23, 2018 at 12:47 pm // Reply

      God is good. God’s Word is truth. I understand your concern. I used to believe exactly like you. Then I let go of tradition and just read the Scriptures. I looked at them in full context. What I’d say is this, it isn’t itching ears to honor Christ’s perfect redemption and Finished Work on the Cross.
      You are concerned about walking away, forfeiting our salvation. We did exercise our free will when we received Christ freely. What did we receive? We freely received Eternal Life, not potential life, and not a probationary path.
      What your concern addresses is continuous faith or a moment of faith. Does salvation require continuous faith or a moment of faith? I submit it’s not continuous faith but a moment of faith. If you prayed for healing or a job, and received the job or healing manifested, do you keep praying for the job? Of course not, that’s nonsensical. In a moment of faith, you believed and received. Once you receive, it’s done, you’ve received. It’s same as purchasing a product. If you have paid for the product in full, why the need to keep paying?
      When you believed, you received the New Birth. Its done. There is no continuing to believe to be saved. You are already saved. It is done. Why is faith for salvation different than faith for healing, provision, answered prayer etc. somehow different?

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